Let Hunters Pull!
Why do we say “Let Hunters Pull!”? Because there is no class better at preventing a party/raid wipe due to a bad pull, dumb luck, bugged instances, or freakishly-designed linked mobs. There are many situations where a crowd-control pull is a solid strategy, I shall not argue against that. However, let’s discuss some of them and analyze their merits and pitfalls.
The Sheep Pull - The reason we let the mage sheep before we pull is that if the mob resists the polymorph, nothing happens and the mage can try again. The downside, of course, is the once the sheeping is successful, every mob either linked to or threatened by the sheeping is now aggro’d on the mage. If those mobs are not tanked by the appropriate people quickly… well, we all know that squishies do not survive long in melee combat. To prevent being a stain on some elite orc’s foot, a mage can use Ice Block to drop aggro, Blink, and get into spell-casting position. However, not only is Ice Block a temporary aggro drop, but where do you think all those mobs are going to run after the mage disappears from their threat meter? Probably the priest that who healed the mage from that first big hit he took before his Ice Block proc’d. Dead priest, wiped raid, you suck, good night.
The Shackle Pull - Do you notice how proud priests are to be able to do “sheeping”? The cloth-wearers triumvirate of Healing, Crowd-Control, and DPS suddenly swings from the mage to the priest and boy do they like that. Anyway, the Shackle Pull roots an undead mob to the ground while the other mobs are tanked and dps’d down. But even worse than the Sheep Pull, now your priest has all the aggro instantly. Priests can use Fade to temporarily reduce their threat level, but when Fade expires, the next threat-generating action will reinstate all the threat that was originally reduced. Yikes! Your tanks are getting smacked around and if you, Mr. Priest, drop a greater heal crit, you’re gonna aggro all the remaining mobs. What did I say in an earlier post, don’t let squishies tank, even if they beg? Something like that.
The Root Pull - Similar to the Shackle Pull, but effective against all mob types, except some wind and earth elementals. As all Druids will tell you, Entangling Roots can only be used outdoors, meaning not in enclosed areas or cities. Zul’Gurub yes, Strat Dead no. Otherwise, this has the same hazards as the Shackle Pull, especially if your Druid is resto and your main healer.
The Banish Pull - When is a warlock around when you need one, right? Elemental and demon mobs in an instance demand a warlock for crowd control. But when that cloth-wearing warlock pulls with a Banish, how does she dump her aggro? Answer, she doesn’t. That’s not to say she cannot Fear and Seduce her way to safety; of course she can. However, it becomes incumbent upon the rest of the party to overtake her on every remaining mobs’ threat list, and during this time, it really doesn’t make much sense for the warlock to be dps’ing and making their job harder. A Banish Pull generally means that a warlock is out of commission immediately after the banish or risk death.
The Sap Pull - Unlike polymorph, shackle, and banish, a rogue can only sap mobs that are not in combat. The rogue stealths up to the mobs, prays he isn’t detected, and once the sap procs, loses stealth and aggros all the remaining mobs. Gee, where have I heard that before? Can the rogue use Vanish? Of course, and all the mobs will, most likely, return to their origination points. But that’s not much of a pull, is it? The whole point of any pull is to bring the mobs to the main tank. So, our intrepid rogue has got to run run run all the way to the tanks so they can grab aggro from the him. During this moses-esque journey, someone has got to heal the rogue. Yup, now your priest begins healing and advancing up all the mobs’ threat meters, all before the main tank has had a chance to throw a single sunder. Disaster is looming, can you smell it?
The Tank Pull - This is a crowd-control pull because the warrior is saying, “I shall control all the mobs”. But as wonderful as plate-wearers are, crowd-control and threat reduction are not their modi operandi. The problem isn’t with him grabbing aggro from all the mobs; that’s what he is designed to do. But what is his solution when he makes a pull for which he is unprepared or incapable of adequately controlling? Frankly, he has none. Our bloody warrior wants to pull a group of three, so he uses Challenging Shout to aggro them all. Unfortunately, he didn’t see the patrol just around the corner and now the party has six mobs with which to deal. It is the tank’s inability to recover from emergencies that is the crucial factor. Just one mob standing there? Go ahead Ghengis, get him. Standing in the doorway of a room full of mob packs, patrols, and potentially stealthed enemies? Well, Khublai Khan, if you make a mistake here, or just get unlucky, you’re gonna wipe your party because you cannot dump or redirect aggro. Perhaps you should consider standing back and let the pulling class do its thing.
And that’s what we’ll talk about next.
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9 Responses to “Let Hunters Pull!”
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ROFL!
Isn’t it amazing what people will risk just because they underestimate the abilities of a hunter?
I’ve encountered pretty much every bad ending you described in this post. (Although most of the time the full-on wipe is avoided with a few well-placed Freezing Traps and pet off-tanking…)
The majority of the time, I find myself on “Squishie Watch” (as I’ve come to call it). The rest of the group pulls however they like (sheep, tank, whatever), and it’s apparently become my job to keep an eye on stray mobs with a taste for cloth.
More and more recently, I’ve found myself laying Freezing Traps at the feet of cloth-wearers, pet off-tanking the other strays, and then DPSing the crap out of the “main mob” to get that one out of the way so we can finish off the rest of the scampering evil-doers.
I don’t think most people realize just how much hunters do while in groups. Which, I suppose, is how it should be if the hunter’s doing their job. With so many pulling mistakes waiting to happen (provided the hunter isn’t used to pull), the fact that so many wipes are avoided is really a testament to how well a hunter actually does their job and pays attention to what’s going on around them.
Case in point… the only times we’ve wiped in Blood Furnace (in the room right before Keli’dan–with all the Fel Guardians or whatever they are) is when the mage sheep pulls, and pulls too many for me to keep track of and crowd control at once.
Generally, the scene goes something like this: the mage sheep-pulls. The tanks run to the bottom of the ramp to grab aggro, but can’t hold on to all of the Fel fellas, and they make a mad-dash for the mage. I lay a Freezing Trap to take one of them out of the fight for a bit, send Pasha after another to keep that one busy, and then start a shot rotation on (one of) the others headed after the Squishie. From there, it’s pretty much chaos, and a prayer by all that we make it through alive.
/sigh
Amusingly enough… the mage is our guild’s raid leader.
And did anyone think to suggest that the hunter should pull? No.
/sigh
I resign myself to Squishie Duty. For now…
I agree that hunters should pull, but I think the players skill comes into effect.
I’ve seen wipes because of Hunters pulling with high damage shots and not using feign death or even dropping a trap, so as long as the hunter is on their game, then he / she should definitely do the pulling.
Hrmm, I wonder what a sheep pull with an Arcane Mage using PoM > Invis after the pull?
I’ll have to test that at level 68 and make a post, but I’ll end that post with the statement…
“Let Hunters Pull”
~Keystone
Crowd control pulling, with the exception of a non-improved sap rogue, is usually a bad idea. The rogue thing can’t always be avoided, so I consider it a necessary evil. I hate sheep pulling because of one thing you left out. Sheep tend to wander.
If an instance is densely populated, then I prefer to poly my target as it is running to the tank or counterspell a caster and get it before it gets to me. The sheep is in a nicer spot then, and it hopefully won’t find a way to aggro any additional mobs.
When I play healer, I tend to go with the tank on whether a hunter should pull or not. If it doesn’t work for the tank, then it doesn’t work for me. As a healer, I want pulls to go smoothly, so a hunter may have to swallow his pride and let the tank do his thing.
Obviously, guild groups and raids are different, but I tend to play things as conservatively as possible in PUG instances. I know the hunter class is the best pulling class in game, but that doesn’t mean the hunter in my group knows what he is doing.
Good comments Damh, and situations we’ve all run into. In my guild it’s not the Priest who wants to be tank, but our warlocks. For some reason they always want to rush into the middle of melee (right from the start) and start DPSing. Tank hasn’t built aggro, and all of a sudden our warlock is 70% down on life.
But we recover usually as everyone is watching each other’s back. We’re not an “uber-guild” but we do seem to play well together.
You forgot to mention the other Druid pull - Farie Fire. I don’t use this a lot, but it can be effective:
Bear form then Enrage to start rage generation. Target the main mob and cast Farie Fire. That starts the pull. Our support off tanks pick up the other mobs while I’m tanking the main. Squishies don’t start off with any aggro until they start healing/DPSing, so we have some time to start building aggro. For a bad pull, I can pull all mobs to me (with that Bear spell that makes everyone attack you. Taunt?) and give my buddies at least a few seconds to reset.
Probably not as flexible as your Hunter techniques, but a decent approach for us feral Druids.
The best Alterac Valley warmaster puller I ever met was a feral druid in bear-form. He put on a clinic when he was pulling, and every time he was in my raid, I made sure to be there to watch. Just beautiful.
I have a lot of time sunk into my hunter. I raided up to naxx with him. 50 plus days played, etc. So I understand hunter mechanics and I’ve done plenty of pulling in my day.
When I tank on my druid and warrior, I prefer to pull at all times. It’s just easier and I know what to expect. I control the tempo. I control what mobs we pull and when. I get hit first, which assists with rage generation. Etc.
Having a hunter pull just adds an extra complication where one isn’t needed. If there is any disconnect between the hunter and the tank, things can go wrong fast.
A good tank will almost never need a puller. Hunters are a benefit to a group for many reasons, but pulling isn’t really one of them. It can be but there are very few encounters where having a hunter pull makes any sort of difference at all.
if the rogue has improved sap, its not an issue, because he will never break stealth when sapping. any rogue worth his weight in poisons will put two points in this talent now that its not so deep in the subtlety tree. then its not an issue of pulling, but more a pre-emptive crowd control.
doom
This thread is very interesting to read as I have just started a hunter (lvl 15) and I’m trying to learn how to play the class well.
However, my main is a balance Druid, and I have to advocate for the Moonkin Starfire pull. A Moonkin has good range, good armor, good stamina, and with Barkskin and appropriate trinkets and talents can continue casting with little or no interruption even if gang-banged initially. Starfire does great damage and awesome damage on (frequent) crits, so that first mob may be dead before it reaches the group.
lol, hunter can “pull assist” but not be main puller, thats yer tank’s job, let me show u the scenario:
A typical 4 mobs encounter (caster, 2 tanks and a ranged one)
Rogue must Sap a tank one, warrior shot with his ranged weapon and move out of line of sight, this is the momment when 2 more mobs can be Crowd Controlled so now Huntard shot 1 mob and places a trap, Mage cast Polymorf and ever1 happily start killing 1 by 1. Huntards are as weaker as a cloth wearer, only rogue are able to off-tank (in a crappy protection wise) because his 30 seconds evasion, Gouge, Kidney Shot…. lot better that traps.