Why Hawk Eye Stinks for Beastmasters
I had a quick question about talent points. I think I’m gonna go beast master as i mostly pve solo\small group. I have 3 points in in the “Hawk eye” talent and 5 in “Endurance training”. I having a difficult time mapping out where to put the next few points (have a few ready to be assigned). Can you give any advice on a build that includes the “Hawk Eye” talent?
BRK has previously delivered unto his faithful readers a post on how to spend your first 40 talent points. Read and enjoy.
As for the other part of Glitterbug’s question, the low-down on Beastmaster is that the key to its build is the 20 points BRK recommends you put in Marksman. Yes, that’s right, Marksman.
This is the build on the Marksman side that BRK recommends for both Beastmasters and Survivalists. Yes, you can go Efficiency instead of Improved Hunter’s Mark if you like, and for PvP players, Improved Concussive Shot is much more useful than IHM. But we love Rapid Fire, Go For the Throat, and Mortal Shots… especially Mortal Shots. We haven’t found a good reason not to get 5/5 points here; it’s just too tasty.
What does this mean for Hawk Eye? It means we must forgo it. Yes, Glitterbug, to answer your question, BRK does not recommend any Beastmaster talent build that includes Hawk Eye.
“OMG BRK! I can’t live without Hawk Eye!”
Folks, BRK has been there. When we were 0/21/30 Survivalist spec’d, we could not believe in an existence without Scattershot and Hawk Eye. But it does exist, my brethren; life from 40 yards in is fine. The sadness one receives for the loss in range is easily surpassed by the joy one receives from the extra damage Mortal Shots delivers.
Damage = Joy. So sayeth BRK, so let it be done.
Saske on 01 May 2007 at 2:02 am #
Thank you for validating my choice. I’ve been wondering if I made a mistake ignoring Hawk Eye for all this time, but I’m happy to see I made the right choice. What a relief.
Been doing fine without it until now and didn’t even really notice the difference when I switched from MM to BM who knows how long ago..
Have to thank you for this great blog. Found it via wowinsider and been browsing through the archives. Good stuff!
It’s so much fun to read insightful, but also funny posts. Nice break from browsing the various forums dedicated to hunter class, where everything becomes a discussion about who has the best ap or what is the best way to maximize your dmg.
Teut on 01 May 2007 at 8:07 am #
Hawkeye is a pure Raid Talent where DPS is all you need (Gruul for example). However that talent should be for MM hunters, not BM’s. We already habe a dot which increases damage for your group, why skill two?
If you do tell your raidleader to stick you with all the rogues in your raid. Otherwise he won’t get it
Wowpeon on 01 May 2007 at 12:09 pm #
I spent my time from the mid 20s through to the mid 60s with Hawk Eye, but when I started tidying up my spec I found I just couldn’t spare the points for it and dropped it.
The only difference I’ve noted since dropping it is… sometimes I think I should be in range but the game thinks I’m not. I have not found a situation yet where I can’t just *move slightly closer*
Borrodir on 01 May 2007 at 1:14 pm #
I completely agree here. I’m planning on trying out an SV build when 2.1.0 finally hits the servers, and I’ll still be putting these 20 points in MM. After all, there’s no point critting if you can’t crit big.
Mindkiller on 01 May 2007 at 3:41 pm #
Um…..I have a secret. Me an the wife made some new characters….Belf…..HUNTARZ.
We have played together for maybe 10 hours and we are at level 14 1/2. We are goin BRK BM build for fun. Tehl u waht. I can now remember why I loved my hunter(42Dwarf) so much. But I havent played him in….man its been almost a year. Thanks for the site it will come in handy now for teh teaching of the wife how to playz her class.
If only I can keep her from running up to mobs.
Anonymous on 02 May 2007 at 6:14 pm #
Here’s some keen MM raider insight for ya…
We don’t like HE either.
It does nothing for our DPS or utility. It’s merely a convenience talent that I’ll be forced to get when I respec SV with 2.11.
Most fights in this game don’t require you to get at that range. Even on Gruul, there’s a knock back before shatter pretty much nullifying any extra range that you had.
On a personal note.. I’m a little peeved that other class can extend their range through talents and only have to spend 2 points to max out, where hunters have to spend 3. What’s with that?!?!
Chris on 03 May 2007 at 5:04 pm #
Ok Firstly, 40 yard range would mean you have hawk eye. So you might want to edit that.
Secondly, I wonder how many times you have died becuase you didn’t have hawk eye
J on 03 May 2007 at 7:47 pm #
Hawk eye certainly isn’t a make-or-break talent. I like it because it allows me to shoot at clothies while they’re still too far away to do anything to me. This is especially evident while kiting.
And in any case my build of choice is Marks/Survival, so… why not get it? (All due respect to you Beastmasters, I did Beastmastery and didn’t enjoy it, and that’s really what it’s all about.
)
But you can certainly excel without it. Hunters have longer range untalented than other ranged classes do anyway, and at max distance you’re way out of most mobs AoE range even without hawk eye.
Cheers!
Blayzed One on 24 May 2007 at 9:53 pm #
I was planning on respeccing my hunter (lvl 22 atm and currently 0/10/3) I have 3 points in hawk eye, but after reading this and other posts im starting to wonder if i wasted those 3 points. I plan on going BM build mostly, but wanted my aimed shot+mortal shots. My question is, after respeccing, should I put all my talent points to BM first, or should I get my MM points out the way? The first five will go to lethal shots (MM), but after that which way should I go? Please help!
Byron on 26 Jun 2007 at 9:56 pm #
For instance PvE dps, yes Hawk Eye stinks b/c it forces you to only go 2/5 in Mortal Shots, one of the best dps talents available to BM hunters.
But in PvP I prefer 3/3 Hawkeye and 2/5 Mortal Shots. In world and bg PvP Hawkeye does so much to increase my dps and survivability (and hence dps), I find it worth giving up 18% crit damage for. It lets me engage from further away, starting my dps earlier. It gives hunters the same range as mages so they no longer get to start casting Fireball or Frostbolt b/f we’re even in range. It helps us stay out of range of warlocks/ and priests’ dots and drains and mages Poly’s and other cc. And it increases not only our autoshot range, but Concussive Shot range as well, helping us kite from 6 yards further away. That extra breathing room while kiting makes it safer to stop and Multishot when it’s up, since you can’t fire Multi while moving.
That’s too dynamic a talent to do a direct mathematical dps comparison with 5/5 Mortal Shots and 0/3 Hawkeye, and it also depends on how well a particular hunter makes use of that extra 6 yards. But in my experience in PvP I believe Hawkeye’s damage-enhancing utility compensates for the lost crit damage of 2/5 Mortal Shots.
Anonymous on 19 Jul 2007 at 1:50 pm #
I absolutely concur with Byron.
The 3/3 in Hawk’s Eye is far more useful than the extra 18% crit dmg.
Hunters need to kite and the +6 yd range gives them that. It doesn’t matter if they do a bit extra damage. Cause without the extra range, you will be more prone to a warrior’s intercept, a lock’s fear, mage’s polymorph, and when they get in your deadzone, it’s over.
Anonymous on 30 Jul 2007 at 2:25 am #
As a 39 non-twink BM Hunter I have found Hawk-eye very useful, now thats jsut me and I’m sitting at 39 in the Battle Ground not doing any PvE.
Shiromaru on Kilrogg on 21 Oct 2007 at 6:42 am #
I, doing alot of PvP and solo PvE grinding, require Hawk’s Eye. I was a BRKer before i knew about this “wisdom-filled” site. When I specc’d without Hawk’s Eye I have to admit that; “I Lost My Mojo Baby”. I am almost always at the top for dmg. in AV and in the top 10% for all other PvP.
In PvE, with the extra range I pull most 70 mobs at about 85% health loss (their’s not mine), letting my pet chew up their behind, or sending my pet on the next ‘farm victim’ allowing me to off em easily in one or 2 hits (duel-wield..can’t let go of my SV past). When I pull, I don’t have to back up, I let em plop right down, dead, in front of me. Heck, skinning takes long enough without having to run up to a kill. Yes, BRK, skinning is a Obsessive-Compulsive driven profession.
For PvP, I use a non-growl’d, prowl’d, dash’d, bite N claw killing machine. For you ney-sayers suggesting such things as; “This is a lazy Huntard”…I only stand still in PvP if I am Shadowmelded..You can guarentee that there’s a trap at my feet, and an “Aimed Shot” is in some hordies future.. from that point on, I am a dancing, prancing, Sap-ignoring, pain-in-the butt. So, I sac’d the 5% Mortal shots opting for 1%. I also put 1 point into “Imp Sting”. Why you ask? Because my fellow Hunter’s, Nothing irritates a squishy like Viper Sting, or a plated-knucklehead like Serp. Sting. Just my 2 cents..
Anonymous on 24 Oct 2007 at 4:28 pm #
I think Hawk-eye really has level-specific usefulness. Having soloed to 60 before my guild really got going strong and into instances, Hawk-eye was invaluable.
I think for lower players especially (sub-30), that extra distance while soloing is life-saving, and I strongly suggest it as an early talent investment.
Once you’re really into your talent build later one though, and once you’re well into instances/raiding, the distance will be less and less useful, and the talent points more precious to respec into something else.
furry on 28 Aug 2008 at 5:58 am #
While you’re leveling and a lot of your life is grinding, hawk eye helps. However, once you are 70 and into raids and instances as your main job, kill it and go for dps. If you have a tank to hold your target, you should be able to attack it at 30 yd or 10 yd- it shouldn’t make a difference if he isn’t coming to you.
I am a PvE raider, and have no use for hawk eye, regardless of what my hunter captain tells me. My job in a raid is dps. And i’m not losing a ton of dps just so i can shoot from farther away.
If I ever do some good ole PvPin, though, and I decide that I should stick with BM, I’ll probably still respec to get that hawk eye.
Truth is, I see survival as the best way to go for PvP. Wyvern sting, traps, survival instincts, deflection. FTW, my friend. FTW.