A Letter From Guy
We have tried our best to preserve the integrity of the email. Where modifications were made for clarity, you will see brackets [like this] used. We hope you enjoy it, we sure did.
“I think SV got the shaft in [the White Damage] department. Mainly because of Master Tactician. It’s a great talent because of it’s reaction. A 6% chance on every hit to increase crit chance by 10% for 8 seconds. That equates to one extra crit in the next eight seconds and because it was proc’d off a crit, it’s one extra crit per proc that has its power increased by 25% of your agility, and when it does proc - which it will - every shot over the next seven seconds has its power increased by that same amount, crit or not. It’s a kind of ‘Double Exposed Weakness Proc’.
“That’s a serious damage increase which the paper doll doesn’t explain and [BRK's] spreadsheet ignores. Most importantly though, it has to be factored in because BOTH Expose Weakness and Master Tactician proc off of Auto Shots and will occur regularly over 1000 seconds whether we are using mana shots or not.
“Lastly, damage modifiers. Focus fire is a flat 2% added damage. Long range weapon specialization is a flat 5% added to damage. The slayer talents of the SV tree are 3% to monsters OR humanoids. It’s [a] 3% damage increase and then increases ANOTHER 3% to crit damage. Now because this damage is situational - even though it most the mobs on this game fall under these two categories - it’s important to note that has to be added in AFTER the paper doll numbers because the paper doll will never reflect this information. It does instead factor in the damage modifiers of the other specs.
“On paper, SV looks like cr@p. But that’s only because it takes a lot of extra factoring that both the paper doll and spreadsheet users tend to ignore. Is it THE uber DPS spec I want it to be? Unsure. The jury is still out. But I think it’s better than what [BRK has] displayed.
“And should I even bring up the hit rating that was used and how that would decrease that amount of damage done over 1000 seconds vs a SV hunter with an extra 3% to hit? With a hit rating of 48 against a lvl 70 you are way below what you should to make sure that 99.9% of your shots even hit, let alone crit. With Surefooted you are at least AT the hit rating for going against a lvl 70. SV doesn’t gain damage with this talent, but without it, BM and MM lose damage. SV is not paperdoll-friendly. I think that’s why I like it. You have to really know your [stuff] to do it.
“Lastly, can we please stop calling people who put more than 20 points in another tree a ’spec’ IMO, if you don’t grab the end talent after putting that many points in a tree, you don’t deserve to be known as a purebred. “SV” hunters who have Scatter Shot are hybrids. It’s that simple. I’m tired of them claiming they are a spec. Especially those that only have one or two more points in SV than they do MM, that does NOT make you SV. That makes you a hybrid. These people can go out and kill Dr. Boom all day long, cause that’s all they will be able to do. Thanks, Guy”
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20 Responses to “A Letter From Guy”
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But the fact that it fails paperdoll calculations seems to make this an excellent candidate to go text on Dr. Boom. Time for a shoot-out on the test realms?.. or at those Draenei shaman that supposedly don’t aggro?.. (just where are those guys anyway?..)
WOW, I can blather..
My apologies to everyone who had the mental dexterity to make it through that whole thing. Had I known the letter was going to be used verbatim, I might have combed over it a little more thoroughly to make sure I was using the punctuation I wanted to be using in certain spots.
As it is, Thank you BRK for picking up what I was putting down and taking the time to make the appropriate edits for clarification. From what I remember it looks accurate. I know you didn’t have to take the time to fix things and I appreciate that you did.
For those of you who don’t know, I was referencing a blog BRK had written on April 7th entitled: BRK Blows 150g For You.
http://bigredkitty.blogspot.com/2007/04/brk-blows-150g-for-you.html
It came attached with a nifty spreadsheet that I was hoping BRK could show along side my letter so readers could actually see how on paper SV isn’t given a lot of the respect damage wise that the other specs see.
My hope is that you all enjoyed reading what I wrote and can find a use for it when choosing a spec to go with your style of play.
-guy
Well… I think I can call a 40 pt Survival Hunter a Survival Hunter, just because he picks up Scatter Shot instead of the cooldown refresh talent doesn’t make him a hybrid or any less of a Survival Hunter. I usually base that stuff off what the Armory tells me. If you go 0/31/30 or something crazy like that, then you’re definitely a hybrid.
Good write-up Guy!
Im one of those “hybrid” 0/21/40 Surv-hunters, and i haven´t really been able to explain for my guildies why surv is great. They are just happy about the Expose weakness-procc and the fact that im always close to the top of the DPS-list.
I´ll show them your letter. Thanks for publishing it BRK.
Guy, I really enjoyed reading your letter, have been thinking about survival spec since the latest changes were published but never had the “courage” to respec from BM. I think you should start your own blog and start spreading your knowledge about the Survival tree (or BRK could offer you a regular spot here… O.O)
it would be nice to see your spec and itemization just to have an idea to what I should aim for.
Grimshar EU-Moonglade
We do need a Survival blog. We need someone with charm, wit, and an intimate knowledge of the spec.
Anyone?
I still catch myself thinking that survival is a melee spec. I’m not sure where that comes from but when someone mentions going SV, I have to keep myself from having visions of some Huntard meleeing to his hearts content.
Was SV ever melee based? Anyone else have this prejudice against SV that is totally unfounded?
SV Hunters are better in melee, true. (Improved wing clip, better traps etc..) But they dont need to melee more than other
Survival used to have a 31 pt bleed melee effect and was a heavy melee tree before their class review. It could possibly be the other reason why huntards exist today. The primary reason being that whole melee abilities until level 10 thing.
I have been considering trying the other talent specs for some time now. Largely because of this site. Both BM and SV are calling to me to try them out. SV was out of the question for a while, until Guy posted about the ap being equal to 1.25ap for SV or something to that effect. I’m sorry, I can’t remember how it went and can’t find the post >_< But that is part of what my reply here is. Yes, I'm butting into a thread here, but posting in a wow forum is a waste of time, and I respect this particular community's opinions. Two things have kept me from going BM to try it out. (ignoring that my hunter has been MM his whole life) One, is a fight like the prince. We killed him again last night, leaving only netherspite and nightbane. So this week is a 3day clear. :) But when the prince does that arcane blast, my pet takes damage. But i'm not really willing to spare him anything to help with survival, because of how mana intensive and chaotic this fight is. He does his 120dps until he dies, usually towards the end of phase 2, or into phase 3. Fights like this, where situational awareness and positioning are so important that it becomes difficult to maintain and micromanage ones pet scare me from BM. No one can sway me on this particular point I suppose, I will have to try and see how it goes the other spec line. But the next part maybe I can get some help with...
I have three gear pieces that have some cool ap bonuses.
Don Santos’ Famous Hunting Rifle:
chance on hit +250ap
I dont’ know what the proc rate is supposed to be, but I feel like it’s about 25% proc. This thing is always up.
Hourglass of the Unraveler:
chance on crit to add 300ap
This also procs a decent amount, but since it’s only on crits, it’s not up quite as often as the rifle bonus. Note, after 24 runs of BM to get this trinket, I will never take it off. Ever.
Bloodlust Brooch trinket:
Use: add 278ap for 20sec. (who picked that number?)
The point is this. Both proc effects happen simultaneously a LOT. Many times on trash pulls and always a couple times on long kara boss fights. When they proc together I use my trinket too, and then my troll racial. As you can see, my dps is strong. As BM, if these things are all up, bonus ap would be 778. That’s hot. But as MM, as I am now, when they’re all 3 up, I get this: 856ap, that’s hotter. Based on your assesments of ap for SV, Guy, what would my ap gain be? And to everyone else, am I being petty by not wanting to give up the extra ap bonus of these items that my spec provides?
Zemulos
Anvilmar Server
SV’s only considered a melee spec because it has so many talents to help out a hunter who gets stuck inside melee range: Savage Strikes, Deflection, Imp. Wing Clip (to a certain degree), the almighty Deterrence, the +15% resist portion of Surefooted, and of course Counterattack.
Of course you’ll notice that with the exception of savage strikes every one of these is a defensive talent; that right there is plenty of indication we’re not supposed to melee unless we have to. But when we have to, we’re much harder to kill than the other specs, except possibly a Beastmaster - if Bestial Wrath isn’t on cooldown anyway.
And oh, Lacerate. I think that, at maximum rank, it did 21 bleed damage or something like that.
Hi, just a quick question about the Don Santos. (Sorry it’s not super on topic. Great letter btw, Guy). Does anyone have any hard data about how often it procs? Also I forget, 250 AP = How much DPS? (I forget the ratio). I was debating aquiring this gun, so any info would be appreciated.
Thanks BRK for posting Guy’s photo. It’s nice to have a face to put with the name…
/grin
Don santos procs so frequently I’m willing to say it’s up almost everytmie I’m in combat. It’s retarded how often it procs. But, when I get the big bad wolf scene a SIXTH time and perhaps the wolfsniper drops, I’m going to be hard pressed to determine which gun is better…unless someone puts up the math
WOW, good morning to you guys too.
Living on the west coast right now means I went to bed and saw 3 comments, woke up and saw 16. It pleases me that you enjoy my blather. A regular blog though at this time is out of the question, I’m hardly getting my RL work done as it is!
I did want to address a few things I saw:
Sylvina solaris: You may call them SV, I prefer to call them nub. Readiness maybe controversial, and I do agree with the WoW forum poster who stated when 2.0 came out: “We didn’t want Readiness as a 31 point talent, what the hell makes Blizz think we want it as a 41 point talent? But regardless it’s in there and provides double the PvE utility of scatter shot. I am the only hunter in my raid that can Double misdirect. That’s not just an ability, that’s a POWEH!
Markus “Lake” Berglund If that’s really your name… Your spec disgusts me… But I’m glad you can spread the knowledge!
Grimshar: Here you go! Although my itemization seems to be always changing, I think it’s more important to understand what I’m writing than see my character sheet. Things like weapon speed to crit ratios are important in understanding why SV works, not so much the itemization you see there.
http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Garona&n=Guywired
toolio: How about Misfit?
Jeremiah I know it’s been mentioned but Lacerate was our 31 point talent for nearly a year. Even when I was SV back then I didn’t get it. SV has evolved from being a close combat competitor to having close combat options for putting yourself back at range. SV is all about doing ranged combat. The talents are designed to give a hunter what he needs to stay at ranged, or get back to ranged. They aren’t designed to be a melee damage dealer, their designed to help a hunter deal ranged damage faster incase they find something in their dead zone.
Zem Spec what you must, but I have always enjoyed your MM blather. You, me and BRK all have to jump on the PTR sometime and have that shootout Karl mentioned.
For the record a SV hunter should again look at:
1agi=
1.15RAP
.029 crit
.29 EW AP
Total=1.44 RAP per Agi and .029 crit (NOT .025)
Also
1AP=
1.04 SV RAP.
Just a reminder.
The Prince fight is fun, it’s why I stack stamina on my pet before armor. It soaks up spell damage, armor does not. I see a lot of hunters bringing their pet in and out for that fight, the only time I do it however is when I need to reposition to avoid an infernal, otherwise ILL will last longer than the Prince and that’s what matters.
The trinket action is hot, but it’s only a 4% AP gain for SV hunters, and the rest of the time you would be missing a crit trinket, which SV hunters love. I don’t think you’re being petty, the only hunter to out damage me has been a MM thus far and that’s cause each of his shots hit like a truck, crit or not. Now he has EW working for him every raid? Yeah… he fucks shit up.
goeben I too loved the photo and am thinking about making it my new avatar, if I were only that smiley.
Someone buy Zem a calculator already!
Thank you all for reading!
-guy
Lol, I have a calculator, but it doesn’t motivate me
If I had a SV hunter in my raid with EW to boost my damage? Omg. I will have to learn to shoot from the feign death position.
But this is the most interesting. “You, me and BRK all have to jump on the PTR sometime and have that shootout Karl mentioned.” This is feasable, is it not? I would be willing to do this 100% just for the fun of it. But, Guy, if we do this to BRK, we might pull him out of BM forever…
ISSUE THE CHALLENGE!
ROFL
Zem…
I read a posting of yours today that made me realize something about you I had never realized before…
You, are a troll.
Not of the forum variety, but of the racial variety.
If I had the time and inclination, I would have a troll hunter. Their racials are by far the strongest for PvE and had I known that someday the trolls were going to get the ridiculous buffs that they have, that is where I would be.
I’ve been a hunter pretty much since day one of WoWs existance, when I picked my toon, NEs were king. That agility buff meant something, Shadowmeld hadn’t been gimped yet and trolls had the worst racials ever.
And now my agility buff is marginal, shadowmeld aint nearly as much fun as it used to be, and I get stereotyped and grouped up with every other NE hunter…
Man.. to know then what I know now..
I digress… Playing on the PTR is going to be tricky if we’re cross factions. Not impossible, just tricky.
-guy
I just wish the prince would drop my bow
What about my trollish needs??
He has dropped the exact same three items 2 weeks in a row /sigh
Btw, I know you love my sexy green hair.
actually, it’s the tusks.