WoW Insider Wednesday, Shuttle Launch, and Dental Appointment
“Dear BRK, after weeks of Karazhan runs as a MM hunter I grew tired of fighting with all the other MM hunters to avoid being last in the damage list. Watching all those smug warlocks, mages, rogues and DPS warriors reveling in their high damage positions was too much. So, I re-specced to the BRK build and retrained my cat, Tom, to be BRK standard.
“One weekend hunting Mountain Gruul, Cho’war and Gurok in Nagrand, tweaking macros and UI layout and I’m ready for last night’s Karazhan run. Oh no! What’s happening? The epic’ed Mage has some competition now. And, Oh My! That upstart Shaman with his fancy totems is struggling to keep up. Where’s the DPS Druid? Hard to tell, awfully low on that damage list.
“Four bosses later (saw the Big Bad Wolf but no rifle drop - Boo! Hiss!) the smoke clears, the last trap quietly fades away and, what have we here? I’ll bet you can guess. The lowly, former MM hunter is number one on damage for the night. Much quiet teeth gnashing commences amongst the dethroned leaders as they fire up the Armory looking for those equipment upgrades.
“But, at least they were still ahead of the MM hunter. I wonder if that makes them feel any better.
“For all the doubters, rules lawyers and math wizards out there: Arguing about which build CAN do better DPS and damage is moot as the only thing that matters is which build DOES do better DPS and damage. Consider me another data point that shows that if you want to max your damage out then you’ll spec 41/20/0 … {Some heavy-duty trash-talking followed that, while we appreciate it, might be offputting to others, so we’re keeping it to ourselves. Imagine Rowdy Roddy Piper on Piper’s Corner and you’ll get the idea.} … Dbloadpants”
So it’s Wednesday and that means BRK on WoW Insider. The column is being scrutinized by the new BRK Executive Assistant and, baring any massive problems, will be published at our traditional 3:00pm EST slot.
STS-118 is being launched today, so it’s busy on the Kennedy Space Center / Cape Canaveral spaceport. Add our dental appointment to our schedule and we’re not going to be posting much more today.
Guy on 08 Aug 2007 at 4:17 pm #
…
this wasn’t what I had in mind.
Rizzah on 08 Aug 2007 at 4:22 pm #
I never run damage meters myself, but after a Steamvault run the other night, someone in my group posted them up. I found out that I was double the 2nd place. While it did feel good, it sure doesn’t make me want to talk wrestler-like trash, and start giving other players “the people’s elbow.”
TJ on 08 Aug 2007 at 4:25 pm #
/prepares to stage weekly coup
Krutang on 08 Aug 2007 at 4:37 pm #
/dives in bunker
Otik of Farstriders on 08 Aug 2007 at 4:40 pm #
We have leveled a Hunter before this current one to 60 back in the day. Wasn’t terribly hard but wasn’t terrible easy either.
Now thought this hunter has been tearing through mobs left and right like we are level 70, even elites 3 levels higher and I do not have the greatest of gear.
We do love the changes to Hunters now, yes we do.
Zemulos on 08 Aug 2007 at 4:44 pm #
Well, I can say that BM is a little higher in dps compared to MM, as I’ve now tried it. But to this OP and a ton of others I’ve heard mewling thusly, I offer this. If your jump in dps was THAT big, it’s because you didn’t know how to play your hunter as MM. The skill involved in BM playstyle lies with your pet. As for big dps from the hunter himself, auto, steady, auto, steady… any retard can do that. For MM, you might need to do more than auto/steady, but you don’t need to micromanage your pet as much, so the difficulty of this build lies with managing the hunter himself better. The difference in dps should be roughly 150 (accounting for gear may alter this estimate), and only on long duration fights, otherwise they’re pretty equal IMO. And MM uses less mana overall, there’s no longer any question in my mind. The point is this… If you’re seeing a dps boost that takes you from the bottom to the top of the dps charts, then odds are you’re still not playing your hunter to the fullest, because you haven’t learned anything about the class just by respeccing. Also, just because you’re MM doesn’t mean your pet doesn’t count. Were you adding in the approx 130dps your pet can do as MM to the dps meters? Or did you only include pet dps once you specced to BM?
/end rant
Vorian on 08 Aug 2007 at 4:47 pm #
drunk astronaughts….check
sabotaged equipment…maybe
astronaugh driving cross country in a diper….priceless
I kid i kid
lolz
RabidPoultry on 08 Aug 2007 at 4:47 pm #
And the converts continue, though at this rate I really am wondering if the Nerf Bat isn’t headed our way in some fashion. Call me paranoid.
As for the dentist BRK accept nothing less than Vicodin my young lad, 1 or 2 and a beer and you could even put up with TJ.
/me hides
Zemulos on 08 Aug 2007 at 4:48 pm #
On another note, I’m not really happy with the performance of 0/31/30 for anyone who cares. On fights that last a while, my 29.86%crit (unbuffed) is nice, but on short fights, I find that I either bust out major dps or pitiful dps. I don’t like the randomness to it. I want to know my dps is there when I need it, not just grit my teeth and hope for the best. Time to try something new I think.
RabidPoultry on 08 Aug 2007 at 4:50 pm #
Wait I just noticed the Rowdy Pic up there, I am old enough to remember him and the “rest” (The Giant, Spuer Fly Shinoka, The Iron Sheik) on TV. And I still love “They Live” it has one of the best fight scenes in a movie anywhere not to mention the famous line ” I am here to chew bubble gum and kick @ss and I am all outta bubble gum”
Classic
Rabid
Sonvar on 08 Aug 2007 at 4:52 pm #
I respecced BM also though I’m not lvl 70 because I was tired in PvP that most of my MM talents like Shatter Shot and Silencing Shot are no where near as effective as turning the Beast Within on and then laughing as other players are helpless to use their CC on me. And once it does fade off if they aren’t dead they are too far down to make it worth it to use their CC.
While going full MM can have its advantages I like BM all the better.
Mel on 08 Aug 2007 at 4:52 pm #
Jesus. That letter writer is just a bit of a pompous asshole. We don’t let people like that stay in the guild. I don’t care if you output twice as much dps as any of us; if you can’t get along without deliberately insulting everyone else, you’re making it all less fun for us, and we’re going to remove you.
I’m also agreeing with zemulos that if switching to BM increases your damage -that- much, you probably didn’t know how2play before anyway. From all the reading i’ve done of this blog and the comments on articles, i’ve learned that MM can output nearly as much damage if the person has good gear and understands how to put together a good shot rotation. I wouldn’t know how, myself, but i don’t go pretending to be a good MM hunter.
TJ on 08 Aug 2007 at 4:53 pm #
I saw that, diseasedbird.
Anonymous on 08 Aug 2007 at 5:08 pm #
Oh boy lots to type, but only a short part of my lunch break to do it before my boss beats me up!!
@Zem, Any time you talk about high crit being essential to your build you’re going to be peaky. Its the nature of any non shadowpriest/aflic warlock’s dps. I wouldn’t think about it too much because honestly there are only a few cases where this is any kinda of issue, curators spawns, illhoofs sacrifice, and trash which doesnt matter. Past that your crit rate will average out across the fight.
One thing I still don’t understand is where you find MM to use less mana than BM. As a rule of thumb a BM hunter is only steadyshotting (99mp) where as a MMer is using arcane(202mp) and multi(313mp?) full time and often with multiple between autoshots. So in 10 seconds with my sunfury as a BM I fire off 5 steadyshots and 2 kill commands = 495+150=645 mana. When I was MM I was ripping out 4xsteady 2xarcane 1xmulti = 396+404+313=1113 mana. I may have my multishot value off by a few points but all things considered in 10 seconds I’ve made enough mana difference to use TBW and still use less mana than a MM. Across 2 minutes the difference in mana usage between BM and MM is going to be even larger. Could you please explain your rationale on how BM uses more?
@BRk - GL with your teefus!
@Guy - dude void reaver trash sucks, I don’t like it, it needs to go. The good news is we got it all down although not fast enough for more than 3 attempts. But we will pwn VR in two weeks and he will geif me pantalones of ownsause chainmail. Of course my anticipation is that netherspite will drop them as well as its our last week in kara just so the GM’s can lol at me. Any specific recomendations on how to plow through the VR trash faster? We are not going alar.
-Shifttusk!!!!
RabidPoultry on 08 Aug 2007 at 5:20 pm #
Can’t resist
Zemulos on 08 Aug 2007 at 5:21 pm #
Shifttusk. To someone like yourself who is obviously a little more into the math part than me, this may sound weak, but I’ll put it out there anyway. Over a longer period of time, BM fires more steady shots. Although you’re not assuming too long of a fight, I see you’ve acknowledged that. Kill command also, which as MM is not really useful IMO. And as MM, I could out dps the BM build if I didn’t use BW/TBW everytime it’s up. A lot of BM damage comes from that, it’s a huge boost. KC and BW together are pretty mana intensive, especially if you do BW three times on a nightbane fight for instance. Also, as BM, I’m much more likely to lead with and keep up an active mend pet. For soloing and kara, my pet doesn’t die a lot no matter what, and I don’t mind pulling him back to see to it. But as BM, it’s essential to keep him alive, so I was expending a little more mana to assure that. And, like I said, I’m not good with the math, but after two weeks of using the BM build, and spending time grinding, I notice that overall, I fired more shots with BM than with MM and so had to drink more. It’s not like I turned into a firemage or anything, but the difference in mana consumption was enough that I noticed it consistently. And for the record, I rarely use multishot in instances at all. Only on boss fights or aoe pulls. I fire arcane a lot, but not necessarily every time. Frankly, when I fire arcane/multi whenever I want to on a boss fight, I can’t feign death enough to keep up with it. Based on the size of the crits as MM, if you’re well geared, you can’t really go balls to the walls dps. The aggro is too much.
Zemulos on 08 Aug 2007 at 5:26 pm #
Ooh shifftusk… Just thought of something else. If i’m using Don Santos, and you’re using Sunfury, and we’re both BM… Over a 9 min period for instance, wouldn’t I be firing a couple more shots than you? Possibly accounting for even more mana consumption? 2.5 weapon speed vs 2.9 is pretty substantial.
Rhust on 08 Aug 2007 at 5:52 pm #
exactly, the dps jump wasn’t THAT big! in MM(0/49/12) I could shoot special shots ALL day and not run out of mana which more than compensated for the speed difference… basically my DPS stayed really close to the same… the cat’s DPS almost doubled, at times higher, but now I’m more dependant on the cat too… it has to stay alive for my 2% bonus in focused fire and 3 more in FI.. I lost some sweet trapping time cushioning, but gained another off tank in the group, I lost silencing shot, but gained immunity to fear with enough damage to solo the sirens in SV before they can fear a person into another group of Mobs… so, in my opinion, depending on play style, they are completely balanced… and if as an MM you weren’t able to keep up on the damage meter, then maybe the MM spec wasn’t what you were meant to play, maybe your gear wasn’t up to par(I ran with several other MM hunters and the ones low on the dps meter were poorly equipped, many still in junk greens) they are different animals to play… but I DO believe they are pretty well balanced. so once again, play what you LIKE, and don’t blame your spec first.. maybe your playstyle fit the BM hunter all along… so there was just a mismatch…
my .02, I’m actually sticking to BM for a bit, no real reason tho… the dps is higher(when you add the cat’s) but that’s not even why I’m sticking, I’m doing more pvp right now and the immunity to fear is hard to ignore… and the last quests I have are all 5 man groups, so the cat is a welcome addition, since we can’t always get a 5th
Anonymous on 08 Aug 2007 at 5:54 pm #
Hey Zem, as a BM I do fire off more steadys, and on nightbane I will need to mend pet a bit (unless i have my handy shadowpriest out) same with gruul, prince and any other aoeing boss. The difference I see in mana consumption is less to do with how many steadys you fire over time but the fact that where BM will spend 240 mana for a mend pet 2x a fight or 300 i think mana on a BW every 2 minutes doesn’t compare to the additional 2xarcane 1x multi fired every 12secs. Just for me I notice as BM i run around with hawk on full time, at the most I use one mana potion on a nightbane/gruul fight. As a MM i had viper full time and would need to pot and would go oom on curator.
Shifttusk!
Zemulos on 08 Aug 2007 at 6:08 pm #
It’s hard to say for sure, Shift. But like I said, I don’t use multi really except in pvp, so we can take that out of the equation, and I actually found myself using AotH with MM more often than with BM. I really really noticed a difference in mana consumption, and have read from others here that they did too upon switching. I just can’t seem to explain it though
But frankly, for close to the same damage that I pump out with BM, I don’t even need arcane as MM… Perhaps my gunspeed and insane proc rate helps with that though, IDK. Keep in mind, raid buffed, when my stuff procs, my AP is about 3k and crit chance 30%, so I dont’ ahve to throw in a bunch of specials to boost dps, and I use rapid fire when stuff procs to get the most out of it, so I’m firing at a fast enough rate that I’m doing some pretty nasty dps, using only auto/steady
Kruncs of Cho'gall on 08 Aug 2007 at 6:14 pm #
@BRK
lmso My roomie is out there at the pad doing his inspections as well. Since I’ve moved in with him, I’ve met a lot of NASA people that play WoW, but didn’t know you were one as well. xD Since you’re local, I’ll buy ya a pint if ya ever want!
@anon
Wow. We just started Karazhan as a guild, and at the first boss, when Midnight and Attu were one, I was oom pretty fast and had to switch to Viper. 4 Fel Mana Potions later and then I died - to note, only 4 of us were killing him from the time the joined to the time we wiped at 35%. We will get our revenge… -_-#
Guy on 08 Aug 2007 at 6:19 pm #
VR trash does suck man, and was the primary reason for me finally ponying up the cash for my epic mount.
When we first started in there it was a zerg fest. If the first two pulls went bad the raid leader would call for the mass exodus. Every pull after that people were told to run back as fast as possible.
Many rogues were lost to badly timed saps.. Easy mode is taking a bunch of mages with to sheep everything. Every hunter should be setting traps to slow if not stop the loose ones. If you’re trapping a pack, freeze your mob, then move down the hall way and be ready to freeze again.
When you get up to the dragonhawks, focus fire everything as much as possible. We like to kill a couple of the birds, then do one of the hunters, then switch back to the birds, then the last hunter then finish the birds. Frost traps work good here. Kill the first pack in the hall before Al’ar’s room, kill the second pack in Al’ar’s room.
The birds on the top ring in that room need to be MD’d down to the MT. We have a plate wearer tag the mob, and then run off.. These birds will charge the player furthest from them, make that your plate wearer. He MUST be the furthest one out.
The next few packs have those robots, we tank one in front of us and one in back, melee has to know to get out before they do their arcane explosion.
Then come the bitch packs… We sheep the engineers, banish the repair guys and burn down the bots. After the bots go down we kill the banished targets one at a time, then we kill the engineers last. Engineers should be sheeped as much as possible and when you pop them you have to keep spread out to not take the full force of their bombs and you MUST keep them stunned.
Vaolla! You’re at VR.
Tank and spank and 9 min 59 seconds, shit your pants for the next 10 seconds and then spend the rest of your life showing off you cool new pants and shoulder piece.
I’m guessing if you made 3 attempts on VR Shift, you guys know all this already. But just incase, there it is.
Good luck!
-guy
PS: I have those pants, and they are awesome.
Zemulos on 08 Aug 2007 at 6:37 pm #
/sigh. Only two horde guilds on my server that have a chance in tier five areas atm. Mine, and a guild named Despair. The latter has actually completed gruul’s and are currently in mag’s. But I don’t think they’ve moved on yet. And then there’s my guild. We have about 20 people that are geared enough for it. That leaves a few undergeared, but trying to get these people together at one time has proved impossible thus far. I don’t want to leave my guild, but I’m saddened by your accounts of the uber dungeons that I’m not in right now
I’m geared well enough to be in there, and I want to be…
/violent sobbing
junku on 08 Aug 2007 at 6:49 pm #
about the post, yes, i tried bm and mm. atm i am at mm. and i loved it. the best instances i had, and kara runs also (the first caotic ones) i was the lowest on dps. but i cc beter then tha mages. zita cc beter then the mages also.she died a lot, hell, she was red with me for a week. but it was the best fun ever. mm, bm,surv, it all diferent play styles. you choose the one you like more. dosnt mater the gear, or even the dps. it is all about having fun, overcoming obstacles etc. about mm, like zemulos said it is diferente, and i think that on mm is about right timing on shots. maximising the rotation…well it is the same on bm, execpt that i cant let pet die. so between the shots i have to look out for pet…but i been mm with 7 points on besat tre for a long time…5 on iaoh and 2 on the talent that gives atck with pet…and while i used that build he never died on raids, and was always at boss…i killed bm hunters on arenas and they killed me also. beter geared hunters, worse gear hunters, because i was naab or they were or because of luck…i love big red pigs, but i love more scater, silence, imba traps….but that is just me, i lvled from 40/50 with out pets, just to learn how to kite.how many of the new hunters did the epic quest?how many of the old ones?btw will we ever have another epic quest?
Anonymous on 08 Aug 2007 at 6:51 pm #
Ah I hate you guys! I used to be a productive employee now I just reply to blogs on the internet I think I need to make one. So anyways.
Zem, I saw your comment on not using multi.
Eak!
Ok so lets not worry about mana for a second. Lets talk raw dmg. When I was MM my AP was 2250 unbuffed with 25% crit, hit capped. Now my autoshot DPS was 330. So to add to autoshot we have steady (which typicaly is the same dps as autoshot) so 330. Arcane is generaly around 150 dps. So you’re firing out 780 dps, take off 30% mitigation you’re looking at 546. Then add in 30% in crits and procs and you’re close to 700dps ranged. Nice, now add 100 for your pet. 800 dps. Its respectable. Now mr jony BM hunter is sitting next to you pumping out 370dps auto 370dps steady, 270dps pet, 60 dps kill command. 1070 dps 749 after armor. Factor in 30% in crits and procs 973 dps is sitting next to you lolling. What does the MMer need to do to keep his raid spot? You said it multishot. Add in 1200dmg every 10 seconds, 120 dps. Take out an extra 150 or so mana per 5. So the MM dps does end up about 100 less than the BM. But the MM is now chugging away with way less mana efficiency. Hehe its moot to argue we each have our own way of doing things. But if you’re topping the meters as MM without using multishot your other dpsers need to pick it up alot.
@ Guy, yea we had some hickups and we cheated bringing 3 mages. Our biggest issues were obviously the last few pulls. We didn’t spread out enough and there were quite a few grenade grenade, sorry about the poly guys wipes. We actualy skipped the bird/hunter groups we just snuck by. But those do look nasty, I doubt we have the control as a raid to keep them all tanked yet. But yea, my bankroll was hurting after last night.
Zemulos on 08 Aug 2007 at 7:13 pm #
The theory sounds great. But like I’ve pointed out before, I simply cannot spam arcane and multi. If I do, I build aggro at an alarming speed. My pet dps is roughly 130dps (90-160 depending) and as MM my hunter dps was pushing 750+ on prince/nightbane, etc. Without using many specials at all! As BM, my pet only did around 150dps more, remember, pet dps scales with AP. Yes, I was approx 2200ap also. Only about 24% crit though, both of those stats unbuffed. Hit rating maxed. I regularly run with BM and MM hunters, plus I’ve run the spec myself. The difference is not as large as you make it out to be.
And I would challenge you to compare your best dps people with my best dps people on armory, even despite the fact that you’re more advanced in endgame content than I. Hinatoba, our best dps rogue, NOT combat spec btw, puts out 650dps regularly and sometimes up to 100dps more on a long battle. I beat him as MM, but only barely, and sometimes he beat me out. As BM, I beat him hands down every time, but only by about 100-150dps. If I had spammed multi and arcane, I could have done the same thing with MM, but it would not have been a good thing aggro wise. I’m on the armory in Anvilmar server. My best dps people are:
Kacolo - rogue
Hinatoba - rogue
Zemulos - MM/SV atm
Rindaya - BM hunter
Offroad - MM hunter
Evelina - Destro lock
Onroad - Boomkin
And there are others, fire mages, locks, feral druids etc. Our raid manages up to 3500dps on prince over the course of the fight. That’s a lot of sustained dps.
I don’t believe you’re taking into account the slayer talents, or the overall bonuses to crits and rap that MM gets. And you’re also ignoring the massive ap buffs I’ve said i get from the hourglass trinket, the don santos rifle, and the bloodlust brooch. I know that BM dps is higher, but I can match it if I go crazy with specials, but then I WILL go oom before a BM and I will get aggro and die. Mana effeciency in relation to dps is part of learning your class, and you can’t just take base damage of a shot and expect that that’s the end all of the arguement for BM/MM. Multi crits for 2800, arcane for close to the same. Do i want to crit that hard in addition to steady crits and auto crits at every available opportunity? HELL no. But I can assure you, the dps of my party is not lacking. We have some of the best players on the server. If you CAN’T top the meters as MM, then you’re doing something wrong, but that doesn’t mean that you WILL top the meters every time.
tehkrons on 08 Aug 2007 at 7:39 pm #
Thanks a bunch for posting about scorpids on WI. Not sure if you realize this, but generally the first step in getting something hit with the nerf bat is making a lot of people aware of it. It almost seems like you’re trying to sabotage the MM hunters who have the RAP to pull this off and can use it to beat even a BM hunter on damage meters. The backhanded jabs at MM hunters I could put up with, as I know they’re mostly just trolling to get people riled up so they keep coming back to your site. This however could be one of the most traitorous moves I’ve ever seen, and it comes from a blogger supposedly dedicated to helping out hunters. Shame on you BRK, shame.
Krutang on 08 Aug 2007 at 7:48 pm #
If it does get nerfed,I didn’t want to tame/level a scorpid anyways. Just don’t attempt to “shame” the guy who attempts to bring knowledge to the “huntard” masses.
Zemulos on 08 Aug 2007 at 7:52 pm #
And BTW, unless I understand it wrong, higher AP means more unmitigated damage, so you can’t jsut assume the numbers that BM and MM put out will be mitigated the same, when there’s clearly a 400ap difference. Equally geared/skilled BM will put out about 150dps more, yes. But your MM hunter has more versatility, he’s not just built for dps. Also, he has higher burst damage for faster trash pulls. And if you think you can’t see the difference in dps on white damage autoshots that are non crits, you need to respec and take a look at the other side. 450-550 white auto BM and 650-750 white damage MM. Over a 9 min fight? Yeah, BM prob wins. Over a 5 min fight? It’s up in the air IMO. Maybe MM wins, maybe BM.
RabidPoultry on 08 Aug 2007 at 8:01 pm #
So I guess sharing knowledge is a “bad” thing now?? If someone shares the knowledge that makes them a hero, if QQ people start whining on the forums thats when Blizz has enough and just nerfs to stop the bellyaching, I mean the Horde has Pallies now for that very reason so the point is sound.
If blizz needs BRK to teach them the mechanics of their game they are a sad sack of dung don’t you think?
So tehkrons I do respect your point, but the bashing is a bit childish, either stick to a valid argumnt or post nothing at all.
Sheesh
Rabid
tehkrons on 08 Aug 2007 at 8:05 pm #
If it does get nerfed,I didn’t want to tame/level a scorpid anyways. Just don’t attempt to “shame” the guy who attempts to bring knowledge to the “huntard” masses.
I have no problem with him telling the huntards that they do not want strength or spirit on their gear, that they should not break CC, that they need to know how to kite, that they can trap a mob more than once, or that they should be using MD. I do have a problem with him exposing something that has helped me do more damage and therefore helped my guild take down more content to the masses that visit WI. I didn’t even care when he posted about it on this site, as here it is going to receive less attention than a huge site like WI. If he really wanted to make a scorpid article, he could have expounded on their high armor, their awesome look, and could have mentioned scorpid poison, but I wish he wouldn’t have made that mechanic the sole topic.
Zemulos on 08 Aug 2007 at 8:06 pm #
Hmm, scolding BRK on the BRK blog is leading to being thrashed verbally… who would’ve thought? Lol.
Kestrel on 08 Aug 2007 at 8:06 pm #
@tehkrons:
Sorry, but I’m not buying into the “if it’s publicized, it gets nerfed” conspiracy theory BS.
So what you want is for the knowledge to be known only to a special few? And have the unknowing masses cry “EXPLOIT!”?
Sorry, but in my book (and trust me, it’s a BIG book), you’re simply trolling for flames. Come on down off your high horse (or cat or talbuk) and join the rest of the common people.
@BRK: If I’m over the top, no problem if you decide to delete this.
For the Pie on 08 Aug 2007 at 8:14 pm #
shift,
at bare minimum you need to sign in instead of by anon…
kisark on worldofwar.net
Krutang on 08 Aug 2007 at 8:19 pm #
I failed to realize that it was your secret and your secret alone. Since you’ve explained that, I’m sure it will be disregarded. What’s next? Burning books?
Anonymous on 08 Aug 2007 at 8:21 pm #
Zem, don’t get me wrong we are talking the same thing the difference is very small between the two. The dmg output of BM for me tests out to be roughly 125-150 more. Thats not a huge difference but in a 1 minute fight that comes out to be 7500-9000 more dmg done. To achieve the 850 MM compared to 1000 BM dps I had to spam every shot, and had to start dps later due to the peaky nature of my threat. And like you said a MM can top the meters on some fights, the peaky nature of the build realy shines in fights requiring burst like curator. And yes BM won’t have the talents for slaying and AP but tons of people have shown that the 5 points in serpents swiftness simply smokes these in dps output. Does this make BM better? Nope just means it can pump out more dps. MM brings another buff to physical dps, easier ability to trap casters (although understanding of line of sight fixes this) and the ability to also spec into better cc. Two different reasons to be in the raid. Need CC on shade trash? Bring in the 0/41/20 0/31/30 hunter. Want to up the dps group by 10% bring a BMer.
Now is a MM hunter in good hands a bad person to keep in the raid? Heck no, on average the best misdirector (asside from deep survival). But will a MM hunter ever out dps me? 1 Minute fight? Not going to happen. Unless the fight is 10 shots and the MMer happens to get a crit string the BM;s dps will be higher. On a 10 minute fight? never. On prince and nightbane I regularly read in at over 1000dps. Gruul I read in at 850 and this includes gslam/shatter time as in combat. The best dps test fight though is netherspite where agro = no concern. Last week I clocked in at 1263dps for the fight, including movement time. The MM hunter was able to clear 900. And no I wasn’t in the blue beam.
With regards to AP bonus being un mitigated thats wrong except for the AP bonus to arcane shot (which I have yet to see what regulates this since it can get partialy resisted). If you gain 14ap. Your autoshot dps will go up by 1dps and that 1dps will be mitigated the same way the rest of your autoshot dmg will.
As far as checking out the other side I generaly respec every patch to check things out. The dmg range for marks. Higher. The actual dps from autoshot. Lower.
@Kisark - For whatever reason my internet at work blocks the signup form for this site and I havent remembered (yes in months) to do so from home.
Shifttusk
Kestrel on 08 Aug 2007 at 8:23 pm #
Bleh…so much for typing in a hurry: I left out my whole main point in my earlier post.
That point is, if a dynamic isn’t working as intended, it should get fixed.
And sorry to say (go ahead, pillory me), but the scorpid poison damage dynamic sure looks like something working in other than the way it was envisioned by Blizzard.
Zemulos on 08 Aug 2007 at 8:33 pm #
I agree with a lot of what you say shifttusk, both in this post and in others. But seriously, if you think a MM hunter cannont out dps a BM hunter on short fights, (1 min is what you used) you’re on crack. Even the mighty blogger, BRK himself has admitted that short term dps favors the MM. As BM, your shots don’t hit hard enough to edge out MM in the short term, plain and simple. BM shines in long battles. One minute fights are wtfpwned by MM, assuming equal crits by the BM/MM hunters. Any hunter worth his salt can tell you that. It’s the whole purpose of the build. Easiest measure of this is arena. My arena ratings aren’t tremendous, in fact my 5v5 rating is only 1461. But we’ve been steady just under 1500 for a while. I can hit 65000+ dps in a 5v5 arena without breaking a sweat if my pally is healing me. Half that as BM. Burst is king in short fights. MM spec is king in terms of hunter burst dps. I’m not knocking BM, but it has crap for burst dps.
Zemulos on 08 Aug 2007 at 8:37 pm #
“With regards to AP bonus being un mitigated thats wrong except for the AP bonus to arcane shot “
I can’t really argue this, too many sites blocked from me at work. So I ask the others reading this section to please confirm/deny this. I know that I’ve read somewhere that mitigation is 30% up to a point but that AP after that is subject to lesser mitigation and equals small amounts of unmitigated damage getting through or something to that effect. I don’t mind being wrong… ok yes I do, but I prefer to know the truth lol.
And the white numbers show a huge difference, when i first specced to BM, I thought it was some kind of joke the drop in my numbers. But then I watched dps overall and saw the power of the spec.
tehkrons on 08 Aug 2007 at 9:57 pm #
you’re simply trolling for flames
What’s next? Burning books?
Burning books FTW. Also discrete wiretapping with no warrants, extremely cool. The Patriot Act was a little lax IMO, instead of being able to get library records they should have just let them abduct librarians and subject them to waterboarding and whatever else was going on in Guantanamo.
That is a troll, if I was looking for flaming that would have been the tone of my post. My original post was serious. Why did BRK suddenly switch from his normal “How to not not be a huntard” articles to one that is only about what may be called an exploit? Seems to me another post on macros, MD, feign death, or serpent sting would educate the masses better than posting about something that may be changed soon anyways.
RabidPoultry on 08 Aug 2007 at 10:59 pm #
If you believe that than why freak out and come here posting about it?
Help me understand.
Dead issue, we will let BRK tell why he decided to do something you act like is the end of the world yet say it isn’t.
tehkrons on 09 Aug 2007 at 12:14 am #
RabidPoultry said…
Here is a perfect example of a troll, let me get my scalpel and I’ll dissect it bit by bit.
If you believe that than why freak out and come here posting about it?
He asks why I come here to post about it. Everybody knows if you want to wage war you take it to the other side’s home territory. You don’t want to subject your assets to collateral damage.
Help me understand.
Dead issue, we will let BRK tell why he decided to do something you act like is the end of the world yet say it isn’t.
He asks me to explain my point, then immediately decides it doesn’t matter what my point is because it’s a dead issue. The troll then continues on to misinterpret my previous posts. He says I’m acting like it’s a big deal, yet saying it isn’t. If he would actually read he would notice that I only said it was no big deal when it was kept to this site, not published so every Tom, Dick, and Huntard can read it. As more people pick up on this bug and start using it in arenas the other classes are going to start crying for the devs to correct the issue. Right now the last thing hunters need is a nerf, either in PVP or PVE. Maybe I should have specified that this is not something I’m using in PVP, only the 25-mans where every last ounce of damage you can squeeze out of your character could mean the difference between a boss down or another 15-20 mins while you get people ressed, grouped together, buffed and make another attempt.
tehkrons on 09 Aug 2007 at 12:33 am #
Grats on a successful launch anyways.
Flowbee on 09 Aug 2007 at 12:47 am #
Rowdy Roddy Piper….not Rodney
Freejack on 09 Aug 2007 at 4:42 am #
They Live!
Did you know that fight scene was reproduce hit for hit in the Timmy vs Jimmy fight in South Park?
Hilarious
P.S. Scorpids suck
TJ on 09 Aug 2007 at 11:25 am #
Can’t leave you kids alone for a minute, for the love of pete.
Traz on 09 Aug 2007 at 1:39 pm #
It’s all very entertaining.
Imagine what the arguments will be like when we have 71 talent points to play with!
41/5/25 ftw
or maybe even 51/20/0 :O
alex on 09 Aug 2007 at 2:24 pm #
I read BRK’s WoWinsider column this week on Scorpids and their uber-poison ability. I feel he left out some information that hunters woud like to have.
1)So they can posion…and that’s about it. Is their total damage going to be greater than my cat? Maybe on boss fights that don’t resist… but he loses all usability of having the pet. ie save a squishy, off tank, or tank a mob who broke a trap, etc… And his total DPS for the raid will probably never match that of my cat and I.
2) Does he have enough pet eneregy to use both scorpid poison AND claw throughout the whole boss fight?
3) And finally…will BRK be adding a scorpid to his stable for Kara runs? My guess is no.
Zemulos on 09 Aug 2007 at 2:31 pm #
Oh man, 71 pts will be freakin awesome. I can’t wait to see the next tier of talents. I’m sure there will be uber hard decisions to make. But, that’s a long time away. I know some people that are freakin out about the expansion already…. LOL
Anonymous on 09 Aug 2007 at 3:06 pm #
Argh no new BRK for the AM!
Hey Zem I checked out those people when I got home. You guys must be stuck in kara unable to get enough people for gruul? You look like you’re all in every piece of kara gear. The only thing I could point out are that try and urge your rogues to go combat its not going to make much of a difference (just a few percent) now or into gruuls but as they get to mags/tk where my guild is working they will fall behind our rogues are all upset about it (yes i know coldblood is very fun). The real big thing I noticed and it ties in with your talking about not multishotting on bosses is it seems your raid is geared up, but sort of speccing and playing to dps only to a certain point.
Ex1: Your destruction lock has 19 or so critical percentage with under 800 spell dmg (he didnt have fel armor on). Now this will go up if he pet sacs for fire buff etc but much like survival destruction doesnt work without good critical. The spell dmg level is also a bit low while your locks mana/hp pools are amazing.
Ex2: You can’t multishot/arcane shot in boss fights.
Ex3: You have 3 misdirects in a raid and are still having threat issues.
It makes me think you’re tanks may need to look at their threat generation cycle. My guild has the same issues in some cases and its all about learning and generaly the tanks saying well you should have waited for more agro are the issue. Generaly a good level 70 tank that is not being rage starved (read mob hits like a sissy) should be able to generate 1000tps give or take. This allows ranged dps to sustain 1299 dps the entire fight without every pulling agro. Generaly a tank can’t get enough rage to sustain that threat per second untill he gets hit some so you give him the 10seconds time to start building up, and if you happen to crit a bunch early you use FD early.
Now obviously this isn’t a huge issue now, the fights you are doing are not all that dps intensive, prince is in a manner but its not that bad. You’ll start to see this become an issue on gruul himself. You’ll learn the fight and have the shatter mechanic down pat and then wipe when gruul hits grow 18 and is not dead. Your raid leader will be going where the hell was the dps?, If you had a video you would see the DPS sitting there doing nothing because they were threat capped.
You were mentioning MM beating BM at burst before. You’re right but to me one minute is not burst. Burst is something like the curator spawns or the demon chains. Where the time frame is one shot cycle or so. I think one minute sorta moves into the sustained thing, like an add on high king mulg.
Shifttusk
Zemulos on 09 Aug 2007 at 3:44 pm #
Hmm, the lock comments are the most interesting. But let me address one thing first. I’m the raid leader of our kara runs, and I do not encourage one spec over another in any given class, I just try to learn them all and help people where i can. My mention of combat spec for rogues was just because (at least on my server) everyone is always yapping about combat spec, and my point was that it’s not necessary from what I’ve seen. But I’m not a rogue, I just go by what the good ones tell me.
The lock is my wife. I have never played a lock myself, and so am not able to really help her in spec decisions, and can only help her in gear decisions based on the classes I’ve played. So her high hp/mana and lack of crit may be partially my fault. From what I;ve experience with other locks, high crit equals dead lock. But I’m not disputing the point, it’s just that I encourage longevity and high damage with lower crit cause I get tired of watching warlocks be aggro whores. But you think she is low on spell power? I find that hard to believe since she’s geared rather well in several kara epics. She’s pretty much raid geared fully from kara, so I’m not really sure where she would pick up extra spell power. She has more spell power than most locks I know, and with the tier four bonus from helm and gloves, when she gets that proc, I dont’ really want her to be critting a lot, honestly.
And as for our difference in “burst” … I assume burst to be anything where upfront damage is needed, even if it means burst of several targets over a period of time, eg arenas or curator adds. But I think we’re pretty much on the same page. I paid closer attention to my hunter cycle in kara last night. I run the group one raid with my tank (Golraatz) I dont’ believe I gave you that name. I’m the best geared tank in our guild atm. I run group two as my hunter. It appears I DO use arcane shot more than I realized. But I do not use multi, except on trash pulls where I won’t break cc. Even with my 0/31/30 build which I’m really not liking (perhaps because of losing the dps I had as BM)I came out on top of the dps, albeit barely, for the night.
And finally, yes, we ARE stuck in kara because we can’t get enough people for Gruul’s lair. I said it in an earlier post, but perhaps it got buried in the banter about MM/BM. I’m starting to get frustrated about it
Plus, I recently gkicked one of our best healers from the guild. His extremely poor attitude and blatant disregard for others in the guild finally did him in. Do you know how freakin hard it is to kick a healer? A good one? But it had to be done.
Guy on 09 Aug 2007 at 3:56 pm #
You still doing the hybrid thing Zem?
Poo. You’re throwing off my numbers this morning bud.
Anonymous on 09 Aug 2007 at 4:22 pm #
BRK you need to make a forum on here for us to banter with! You seem to attract some very good posters!
Zem, one of the best things I’ve heard is you not requesting specs, our mage class leader does this and I feel soo bad for them. Having 4 people doing the exact same thing and having no variety sucks.
So with the warlock I don’t play one but since we’re always trying to fight for the meters (Me, 3 locks and a shadow priest) we get to talking about how to itemize ourselves. We have only one destruction warlock who was in mostly kara gear and although he did fine dmg he wasn’t smoking the meters. He then upped his +fire and +crit and suddenly is scary, and yes his threat is major. But he has gotten very good at using the best soulshatter timing as well as some potion from sporegar rep that lowers threat. What I can say from him is he went from 19% crit to 25% crit sacrificing some dmg but mostly int/stam and hes now a monster. I know alot of this comes from his crafted gear. He is wearing the spellfire set and I think the spellstrike pants (I believe hes wearing t4 head and shoulders). One thing to note is the crafted gear is generaly far better for dps than the kara drops. My ebon NS set outclasses belts/bracers from Kara and Mags and TK trash, the chest piece is as good as t5 as far as dps. I believe the tailoring sets are even better. As far as her not critting alot, if this is the case she should go affliction. Like any caster “nuke” spec ruin specced destro locks need it. Unfortionatly kara doesnt provide the itemization that all specs need. Immagine going full survival in kara gear, it would hurt.
As far as your tank, I cant catch the gear from here but kudos to you running with both groups, that would drive me nuts our guild since we havent taken kara off the schedule is now up to 3 kara groups each with a 2-3 person waitlist EAK!
I just saw your earlier post about gruuls now. That was a pain we went through as well. Going from a 10 man team, to two 10 man teams, to a 25 man took us a while, unless you plan ahead kara is a pain and keeps you locked up. Once you have gruuls down but not another 25 man boss kara is even worse as it eats up a ton of time.
With your build don’t worry, in kara while your group isn’t completely decked out better traps are more important. If you guys cant take gruul down, then respec BM. Right now my guild doesnt even CC in most of kara, I randomly trap some atumen trash, there may be a shackle but our tanks need to double tank there and on spellshades to even have rage. In our groups B&C though they cant do that.
And as far as your healer. Good call, a bad attitude you cant fix but finding another good healer you can. Don’t worry about it too much, 9 good players not dealing with an idiot is better than 10 good players all angry.
Shifttusk
HELL on 09 Aug 2007 at 4:29 pm #
You have 3/3 barrage and aint using multishot? why waste those 3 points then? /sigh
Multishot is possibly one of the best damage shots a hunter has, BM doesn’t use it due to the faster attack speeds, survival uses it as the high critrate gives it an awesome damage boost, marks should be using every special possible - steady, arcane and multishot, everytime they are off cd.
Look at your rotation, as marks you should be able to do a special after a steady at least 2/3 autoshots, i.e. auto/steady/arcane/auto/steady/multi/auto/steady etc.
You have talents in multishot, use it! It doesn’t matter if bosses are single target, multishot is an absurd amount of damage that can’t be skipped! If you are running high mana mid fight as mm/hybrid, you need to use more abilities!! Fel Mana pots are your friend, dont use viper, keep hawk up and just go all out. You are a hunter, aggro is not an issue when you have Feign death every 30 seconds (assuming the tanks are semi-competant).
I’m full surv with 47% crit buffed, I use everything as soon as its off CD, Thrill of the Hunt helps alot, but it’s not everything! If you have a pala in the raid, get JoW up on every mob, its awesome for hunters with autos hitting every 2 seconds or so giving free mana. Chugg fel mana pots, or supers everytime you drop below the pot maximum (i.e. use it when you can top up to full, not when you are oom already - thats too late!)
If you still refuse to to use your specials then drop all those talents and put points into the things you do use… if you only use steady then you may aswell spec BM.
Zemulos on 09 Aug 2007 at 4:58 pm #
Lol, Hell, I have to disagree with you. First of all, speccing in barrage is still good in pvp, and I use it liberally. Shadowpriests spec in spirit tap and it’s useless in dungeons/raids. SV specs in a lot of trap stuff that is useless in most raids. Not ALL pts are for pve. Balance is useful also. And if you think that feign death is the be all end all to aggro dumping, it’s not. I can dump aggro with feign, yes (btw, if you’re SV more fully than I, then you might have imp feign?) but feign can be resisted! In addition, it has a cooldown. It might be worth mentioning that feign was resisted on me three times last night. I can jumpt the threat charts easy if I want to. I can control how much dps I output. What some people seem to miss from my posts is that I choose not to use some specials due to the damage I’m already putting out. Part of being a good hunter is managing aggro. And I have noticed something lately A LOT. Feign death does not always wipe my aggro anymore. Sometimes it’s not even reducing it. I’ve seen this happen so much since the recent patch, it’s just stupid. And I don’t avoid specials because of mana, I pot when I need to. Every “huntard” uses feign death. What’s the biggest complaint about hunters? Pulling aggro… Feign is not an excuse to go nuts on aggro. I have been trying to teach this to another hunter ni my guild who thinks the way you do. Trust me when I say this, dumping massive dps out then feigning is not really getting you higher sustained dps then just maintaining a slightly lower dps and NOT having to feign constantly, plus you’re wiping out the random chance of a resist on feign and a possible raid wipe for overzealousness. And it was never a question of refusing to use things, just a question of how often. I do enough dps that I don’t NEED to use them constantly. But maybe this will ease your mind. If we’re fighting a boss, and a few dps are down, do you think I hold back on specials? Hell no. I’ll unload MASSIVE dps in those instances. But it doesn’t mean that that’s the best course every time you fight a boss. (BRK, this aggro management vs dps is a juicy topic for a blog, buddy)
Shifftusk, thanks for the comment about the healer. I felt it was the best course of action, and it made a bold statement to the guild too. Your itemization comment on kara gear is well received. And I’ll pass on your info on lock specs to the wifey. I don’t trap in kara much either, only on the 5 pulls in attunmen area and one moroes add, just until the first two adds are dead, so that the off tank doesn’t have to be healed so much, lowering the chance of a healer getting aggro early from moroes
I like to avoid unnecesary aggro risks >_<
Zemulos on 09 Aug 2007 at 5:05 pm #
Oh, one other weird thing I’ve noticed since the last patch. Shiftusk, you mentioned the numbers somewhere within our walls of text that if tank is generating dps at 1000tps then I can maintain (as a dps class) 1200tps also. Yeah, this used to be the case, but here’s what I’ve seen lately. When I get 2k threat below tank, I have to feign. ANY ranged dps seems to be able to pull aggro as soon as they match the tanks aggro. The 120% rule seems to be off kilter since the patch. I can’t explain it, but we have to watch aggro more carefully now.
Guy on 09 Aug 2007 at 5:06 pm #
Agreed Zem.
Sometimes a hunter has to know when NOT to FD.
I think someone somewhere wrote a book on it…
Maybe someday BRK would be kind enough to post it..
RabidPoultry on 09 Aug 2007 at 6:25 pm #
Agreed on the pulling Aggro, if my numbers get to within 100~ of Kimba’s I start kiting, though since I got Intimidation last night I will need to rethink that scenario a bit, after using it on mobs +3 levels on me I am very happy with the results so far. But I did have to FD 2 times last night when I pulled too many adds (stupid trolls out in Grom’Gul) and I need to Bestial Discipline next, or start mashing Growl off once it lands to better help my AP points on Kimba.
Guy on 09 Aug 2007 at 6:26 pm #
/yawn
Slow news day..
For the Pie on 09 Aug 2007 at 7:18 pm #
TJ finally made good on her threat to beat him with the “wet end” of his recently removed arm.
Oh and he hates me cuz I am an Orc.
Anonymous on 09 Aug 2007 at 7:19 pm #
Was using KTM during a raid two weekends ago while fighting Prince. I was dumping a lot of dps, and noticed my threat inching towards the tank. I hit FD when it got to about 80%, as a precaution in case it got resisted so I would still have another chance. No resist message, my threat dropped to nil on KTM, I can resume my dps dump, right?
Wrong. Within about 20 seconds of my supposedly SUCCESSFUL feign death, Prince comes running over and 3-shots me.
So yeah, I think there is a bug with Feign Death
-Dunmirik
Zemulos on 09 Aug 2007 at 7:46 pm #
BRK must have had his fingers cut off at the dentist. No new blogs. Might just have to post about 60 more comments on this one…
Guy on 09 Aug 2007 at 7:57 pm #
Right Zem?!?! gawd.. I might actaully have to do some work today…
Zemulos on 09 Aug 2007 at 8:01 pm #
Yeah, this is not helping me make use of the 7/8 hours that I waste at work each day.
Anonymous on 09 Aug 2007 at 8:03 pm #
Well, I guess it all depends on who you’re running with. We just stopped going to Kara as nobody needs anything there anymore. When I was MM spec I was always 2nd in damage to our Warlock. Now that I’m BM spec I’m still in 2nd place… I have a combination of tier 4 and 5 with some other stuff like the Void legs and my weapon is the Sunfury bow. I thik what hurts me the most is lag in the beginning. After a few bosses are down and lots of trash cleared my shot rotation gets a lot better.
tehkrons on 09 Aug 2007 at 8:12 pm #
One thing I’ve noticed about feign death is that it doesn’t immediately drop your threat. If you feign and then immediately start attacking it doesn’t do anything other than clear your name from the threat meter. You need to feign and then lay on the floor for a full second or so before it will actually drop your threat.
Kruncs of Cho'gall on 09 Aug 2007 at 8:23 pm #
@tehkrons
Yeah, there is currently a delay bug in FD, but the Threat Meter doesn’t register the delay bug as it shouldn’t be there. Once you feign death, you need to stay down for at least 2-3s to safely drop your threat.
@zem
since i’ve found all these wow blogs, I spend maybe about 4 hours of my 8 at work actually working - 3 if I don’t count lunch, but been working through to make up for all the time spent on here!
For the Pie on 09 Aug 2007 at 8:24 pm #
How many comments can we leave, before we break blogspot….hmmm
Guy on 09 Aug 2007 at 8:27 pm #
one more comment?
Zemulos on 09 Aug 2007 at 8:31 pm #
HAHA! I’m number 71, I’ll crash the blogsite like Y2k crashed all the computers in the world… wait… that happened, right?
Guy on 09 Aug 2007 at 8:35 pm #
Yeah, I was aiming for 50, 60 and 70.
I got comments 60 and 70, but when I thought I had gotten 50, I really got 51, and subsequently deleted my comment when I found out that someone beat me to it.
Guy on 09 Aug 2007 at 9:44 pm #
OMG this SUCKS!
I’m getting work done…
Dbloadpants on 09 Aug 2007 at 9:48 pm #
Yikes! I sent in the message in the post and I wasn’t going for a WWF Smackdown. Instead, I was hoping for more of a Seinfeld’s Izzy Mandelbaum. I guess I overdid it.
Misfit on 10 Aug 2007 at 12:06 am #
Pip pip, whats all this then!!!
75?
– Misfit –
RabidPoultry on 10 Aug 2007 at 12:55 am #
hmmm maybe BRK took my advice about the Vicodin and Beer.
Or TJ ate him
TJ on 10 Aug 2007 at 2:13 am #
You calling me fat?
Mania on 10 Aug 2007 at 3:13 am #
You work at the Cape, BRK? I grew up there — on MI. My father was an electrician with USBI. One of my uncles works there now, but he’s some sort of admin person so far as I know.
Karl on 10 Aug 2007 at 3:40 am #
I know, he took crazychicken’ advice on the vicodin and beer, and accidentaly stowed away on the shuttle. I’m sure they’ll find him any day now..
For the Pie on 10 Aug 2007 at 3:53 am #
Woot am i 80??
TJ claims she didn’t harm him.
Kruncs of Cho'gall on 10 Aug 2007 at 4:03 am #
I’ll put down 5 Gold down that says he’ll be back tomorrow after taking a day of rest from the NPC’s, Dentist Demento, attacks. I always require buffs before attempting that NPC, and I still come out bad… :/
RabidPoultry on 10 Aug 2007 at 7:40 am #
um no TJ
Mean but not fat.
Or maybe its sassy, since mean isn’t used in alot of parts in the US.
*ahem*
traz on 10 Aug 2007 at 9:30 am #
/stretch
/yawn
It’s a new dawn
It’s a new day
But where oh where
is BRK?
Lance on 10 Aug 2007 at 1:05 pm #
BRKizzle where izzle we misses you!!!!
TJ on 10 Aug 2007 at 1:10 pm #
Stop! Stop! You’re just fluffing his ego! Don’t encourage him! Critical mass is nearly reached as it is!
Anonymous on 10 Aug 2007 at 1:29 pm #
BRK WHERE ARE YOU!!!!!
-Drizztz
Tom on 10 Aug 2007 at 3:12 pm #
I haven’t read through all the comments but the fact that someone was finishing last as a MM hunter tells me alot.
In my guild, other our uber rogue, and the two uber geared mages. I finish above everyone else hands down as a MM hunter. I do like the BM spec and give it mad props. But I am tired of hearing how MM pales in DPS and sucks compared to BM.
I simply do not find this true. in 25 mans I am in the top 5, 10 mans top 4, 5 mans top 2.
All depends on who is in our group. However last night was the first night I got to run an instance with Legacy + Savagery. Let me tell you that uber priest doesn’t have nearly the gap between us.
Lastly my ranking in damage meters isn’t a competition. I use it as a guild to make sure I am doing my job. I am near the top if not at the top, trapping mobs, and off tanking with the pet when needed. Seems to work fine for me.
Guy on 10 Aug 2007 at 4:04 pm #
Wow.. this thing is still moving?
Can you believe it?
Guy on 10 Aug 2007 at 7:07 pm #
Oh yeah.. I know you all have been thinking about it all day.. But I’m going to beat you to it…
Guy on 10 Aug 2007 at 7:08 pm #
BOOM!
#90 Biatches.
Zemulos on 10 Aug 2007 at 7:54 pm #
Amen Tom.
Guy, only 9 more posts and you can be number 100 this time!!
Guy on 10 Aug 2007 at 7:59 pm #
omg ur right!
PS: my word verifaction for this one is: feuxmee
Anonymous on 11 Aug 2007 at 10:50 pm #
T minus 7