What I have found myself doing so far is mostly what J said (’tho switching probably before 25%, I’ll have to try holding out longer). And even then it depends somewhat on the boss. Our guild is still mostly in Kara (trying for Gruuls a few nights when we do have 25+ 70s on) but I know some fights I can just keep AotH up (Maiden) but others I have to switch to AotV. So I think I will go and respec back to Imp AotH, next time I hit IF. Thanks!

Stop healing murmur!

*hides from the mob of disgruntled hunters*

But if you take to raiding at a higher level procs like this are absolutely great, haste makes for alot of dps and Imp AOTH is 15% haste thats up half the time!

@J - I whole heartedly agree and I think our opinion is mainly due to the fights we’re doing. Gruul takes several minutes of pew pew 5-6 usualy 10-12 grows at 30 seconds a grow. Void reaver is a 8-10 minute fight. Magtheridon takes FOREVER. In fights like that haste procs = time where you can cool your jets and mana regen and make it possible to save your pot cooldown for haste potions for more dps.

I agreed with your comments except one where you said Imp AOTH+ Dragonspine+Rapidfire means time to aimedshot. I still never use aimed except on MD cooldowns. I find when i get all 3 hastes up, my attack speed goes to .99 with the sunfury I change my rotation to:

Auto-Steady-Auto-Arcane-Auto-Multi-Auto-Steady-Auto-Auto-Auto-Arcane

When I get to this point my mana consumption soars but I’ve seen upwards of 1800dps. I generaly swap to this rotation any time I get IAOTH+DST at the same time and even without berzerking/rapidfire I see 1500-1600dps.

@Ralowae - Your opinion on ImpAoth vs Thickhide may change in a raid. You’re trading armor & hp for tons of dps. I’d never recomend dropping imp mend pet but ThickHide/Endurance training are not raid friendly talents. Armor does nothing for pet survivability in most fights.

What I did notice was alot of good concern over MP5 and Regen. Now we’re talking its why on the AEP system MP5 is the highest valued stat for us. But theres a solution to stacking shammy gear. Its called proper groups in raids. Think about the most beautiful thing for your group, it periodicaly heals your pet and gives you mana. Its a shadow priest. BM hunters give 3% dmg (85% of boss fights in raids) to their party. If you set a good party you’re going to be rocking pack Those who need mana and minor healing together with a shadowpriest! And give them a buff as well:

Ponder this dps group:

1xBM Hunter
1xShadowpriest
1xHealerShamy
1xWarlock
1xMele (Enhancement Shammy works wonders for 2nd blust)

BM hunter gives 3%dmg to Shadowpriest,Mele,Warlock

Healer Shammy Gives + SpellDmgTotem & Mana Stream for casters and can swap in tranquil air if threat is an issue

Warlock Gets 3% DMG & enough mana/hp to lifetap and spam shadowbolt like a madman while keeping all dots up

Mele Person gets 3% dmg and additional heals if they are a shaman they give your pet unleashed fury and SOE & GOA totems. They get mana back and can use their pot cooldown for haste pots and will have mana to top themselves off releaving the raid healers.

Group makeup is huge to maximizing your raids efficiency. That group would put out over 5000dps with only 4 dps people while giving the mana efficient shamy healer the ability to use earthshield full time and literaly spam LHW and chainheal.

Shifttusk

I’ll be trying it out for a while, seeing how I like it. For 25-mans I keep hawk up alot on boss fights. No Shadow Priest, no shaman, just using a ret paladin to keep wisdom judged. For long fights I can get by using only a few mana pots. If we’re chain pulling a Kara farm run, you can bet your britches I’m using AotV… but on Void Reaver? Hell no! We need all the dps we can muster (not really… but I can pretend we’re still close to the enrage limit)

But j is on the money for raiding. If you have to use health pots for a fight… well, you or your healers are messing up (or you need to get a warlock and a healthstone). If you want your raid to progress and be worth any amount of salt, pot every 2 minutes. No excuse. Use lower level pots if you need to, go buy some PvP pots! I know I don’t always use supers! Fel mana pots are great for hunters. You turn mana into pain, which means you’re just like mages… who pot every 2 minutes… So should you! Pot every 2 minutes if needed and end every boss fight with less than 500 mana. Now you’re learning to walk upright rather than crawling around on all fours like the many huntards! Do that and see how much you have to use AotV. I know I still use it sometimes, but not much.

The only reason I’m thinking about ditching IAotH is because of the randomness of it and the shot-clipping I get with a 2.9 speed weapon and my extended shot rotation. Not sure if it’s perceived clipping or true clipping yet, have to do some tests on some tank and spank fights where I can mostly stay still like Mag p2 and Gruul.

As for the Sonic Spear… you can check my armory profile. I’m nearly exalted. I’ve run Sethekk Halls maybe twice, Crypts never. All non-quest LC rep is from SL and heroic SL… I’m waiting to see if I get exalted or Legacy 1st. The last hunter 2-hander I saw drop was in DM east. Fankriss never yielded his Barb, one warrior got Nef’s big sword, and I was totally going to roll on the next one!

But I’m getting used to my Hellforged Halberd. Sometimes my guildies can’t find me in a raid to trade because to find a hunter, all they look for is the sonic spear, and I’m practically the only hunter on the server without one. Hellforged Halberd wielding Dwarfs represent!

IAotH is just not that Mana-Burner you talked about.

Hey we’re not talking about grinding. For Grinding its AotV, Hands down.

In any 5-,10- or 25 Man I always run with AotH (well expect while tanking Giggler…).

Do I have to take 1-2 Mana Pots?
Do I sometimes, especially fpr those first kills, use Dark Runes?

Hell Yeah!
I am a Hunter! My job is DPS that boss down. Usually when you kill that boss you need no Trapping or other support. You have to put every tiny bit of DPS on the table.

We surly agree that there are classes, on an equally geared and skilled situation, that can out-DPS a hunter. (*looking at those darn Warlocks*).
So lets talk a look at the Prince for example. You stand at range, move away from an infernal sometimes, and DPS as if there were no tomorrow (BTE: enfeeble and trolls berserker racial rock).

Now you get that sweet AotH proc. Great.
You get enfeebeld same time. Even better, pop berserker (as a troll).
And your trinket CD just came up. DPS-Heaven here i come!

Many people just don’t really understand AotH and try to stick to their Rotation. That can’t work. Sure, you have to adapt. But hell, we are reading/ writing this blog. Chances are we do care about how to sucessfull play as a hunter. Adapt or die (or FD)!

I confess I do have a heavy tendency towards every mane-bringing stat there is (mp5, int, Manaoils, whatever) and prefer them over Stam, but again balance your hunter so it fits your playstyle.

I like this blog, but there is no way I’d do everything just the way BRK says. I got my own style and Damage Meters proove that it ain’t all wrong.

Even on long fights, I fail to see the need for points spent there, could just be me but oh well.

Most of you guys are saying iaoth isn’t useful because you run aotv instead. the reason why you run aotv is because iaoth doesn’t proc enough or is useful when it procs.

If you are running Iaov anytime before you are 25% mana you aren’t maximizing your dps. 1) with decent gearing you should be able to sustain your dps with a autoshot steady shot routine with aspect of the viper on. 2) If you are ending your fights with subtantial amounts of mana, then you aren’t planning your fight very well. 3) iaoth is a damn lot of AP you are throwing away by not using it.

In the next patch, Blizzard is going to make the equation easier for you guys by making viper less effective at higher mana pool levels and more effective at lower mana pool levels. Basically, they are saying, you shouldn’t be using aotv to start a fight, but even now you shouldn’t be either. Gruul’s and Magtheridon are long fights indeed and it stretches my mana pool to the maximum and I’m constantly having to mana pot every 2 minutes and swapping between viper and hawk, but I can tell you that I’m in hawk aspect more times than not, because of the amazing amounts of AP you get from it and if I’m going to be using Hawk, then I’m better off for having improved version of it. Sometimes when I stack rapid fire, iaoth, and dragonspine all proc’d at the same time, even aimed shot becomes a good alternative in my shot routine.