Your License Is Secure
“Dear BRK, Timmy, (my beloved pridewatcher), and I were thinking about WOW instead of working so I thought I would ask a question. Do you think that the dependence we place on our pets and the ensuing ease of soloing contributes to the multitudes of hunters who never learn to crowd control, manage aggro or even how to play the class in general?
“I didn’t even learn about these things until I was in my mid 60’s, I still can’t chain-trap particularly well, and this was as a MM and often melee-hunter - goodbye hunter license - with almost no pet talents. My pet was able to make up for my shortcomings and I really didn’t need or even know that I needed to become a better hunter. It probably would have been worse if I had been a BM with a pet who could actually hold aggro and I was able to stand back all the time and provide my pet with massive quantities of easily sustained dps.
“It’s just a thought and it’s probably been talked about a million times but I can’t remember anyone explicitly laying part of the blame at the furry feet of pets. Zeemmaraj.”
It’s not the pet’s fault, no. The problem isn’t that leveling a hunter is any easier than any other class, it’s that hardly anything we need to do to be helpful in a party or raid is part the skills we learn and use to level. This is just as Zee describes.
What happens when we grab aggro from our pet? We melee. Does it work? Sure it does. Does this behavior fly in the face of everything we need to understand about aggro management in an instance? You bet your bippy.
Do we need to trap in order to level? Nope. See two mobs, send pet on both with a Mend Pet cooking and he’ll be fine. Try the same thing in Shattered Halls and your pet is going to end up a smoking pile of goo on the floor.
Compared to a hunter, a pet is a great tank. Compared to a Real Tank, a pet is a joke. Your pet has 10,000 armor and 7000 health? Your Kara tank has 14,000 armor, 15,000 health, 15% dodge, 20% block, and 15% parry. Your pet mitigates 50% of melee damage, but your tank completely avoids 50% of all hits and then mitigates 55% of the damage he does take when he’s hit. When grinding, your pet takes a beating but not so bad a beating that a Mend Pet won’t keep him going. In a heroic or Kara, your pet will get two or three-shot. Onemust be able to chain-trap to move into higher content and our1-70 grind doesn’t prepare you for that.
What does? Practice. Just because you don’t need to chain-trap to level doesn’t mean you shouldn’t practice it.
Are you running around Nagrand killing the Talbuks? Try chain-trapping one tonight. See how many traps you can use in a row. Two? Three? Can you chain-trap a Talbuk to Halaa? To Aldor Rise?
And once you can chain-trap, we’ll move onto double-trapping.
For the Pie on 06 Sep 2007 at 2:47 pm #
My thought is hunters should be one of the best at aggro management. The goal should be to never grab aggro from your pet. AND if you do, what is your plan to give it back to him/her? And we have an opportunity to practice aggro management each and every mob.
I am raising up a ghost saber so him/her holding aggro isn’t working I have about 13 levels on the pet at this time. So I am working on my defense and weapon skills, but since the mobs I am fighting are usually 3-4 levels lower than I am, I can do it. Once the cat gets up to my level, I expect to never melee unless I am learning skills and that is only after the pet has aggro. (although defense keeps lagging behind doing it this way)
Trapping seems to be the part you must set aside to practice. It’s not something we just practice matter of factly during leveling.
The Egotistical Priest on 06 Sep 2007 at 2:56 pm #
What should you do if trap breaks early?
I’ve seen lots of suggestions on how to handle a mob if your trap cooldown is ready, but not so much on if the trap just flat out breaks early. Nobody hit the mob, it just didn’t stick, and now you’re left with a mob that you don’t want to send back to the tank (it belongs to YOU, of course) but you’ve got no way to make it shut up until that agonizingly slow timer runs up and you can lay down another trap.
What do you do?
ithrows on 06 Sep 2007 at 3:03 pm #
*nod at the egotistical priest*
Case in point Moroes… I was on adds trap duty last night and low and behold, I pull the trapped mob, he walkes over my trap, trap’s gone.
I get my pet to tank him, trap cooldown isn’t up yet, I’m yelling in vent “square trap resisted”, pet dies, tank grabs my mob I’m panicing like a noob, moroes eventually dies, but I’m left with gnawing sense of failure. Tank (Elune bless his heart) took the responsibility for not having a back-up plan for trap being resisted, but seems I should be the one with the plan. Maybe I should have kited him?
Karl on 06 Sep 2007 at 3:13 pm #
The other problem with trapping is that most hunters really don’t learn about trapping until late in the game. Guilds don’t train their hunters while they are young, and most pugs don’t give you a chance to ply that part of our trade, so we just go for the max dps.
Perhaps part of the problem even lies with Blizz, since there aren’t any quests that really involve using that skill, like there is for pet training.
The Egotistical Priest on 06 Sep 2007 at 3:18 pm #
*laughs* And I totally forgot to thrown in a “Pop quiz, Hotshot!” on that comment.
Drat, a perfect opportunity, blown to smithereens!
The Egotistical Priest on 06 Sep 2007 at 3:29 pm #
While I’m tossing up Freezing Trap questions, a lot of guides recommend running as far from the currently frozen target as possible.
Why?
Is there anything wrong with just dropping the trap on the already frozen mob?
I can see it possibly buying you another second on your trap cooldown, but eating into your dps in the meantime.
kakalaki on 06 Sep 2007 at 3:41 pm #
I learned to trap early. I used it all the time to help myself lvl faster. I still think Hunters are one of the hardest classes in the game to play well at.
I started learning how to chain trap when I started running high-level instances. When a trap breaks early, you have options depending on your mob. You either have your pet tank, you tank (and when I mean tank, I mean take it like a Hunter), you kite (though I try not to do this because sometimes the grp needs my DPS… the faster I help the tank down his guy, the sooner he can get mine), you can FD if the tank pulled the mob, you can WC and run. Of course when the trap CD is up, trap again if you can.
What I hate is how others don’t understand Hunter mechanics. It’s hard, and frustrating, being a BM Hunter and people not understanding chain trapping. It happens all the time. This can range from people pulling their mobs over my traps, or mages Frost Novaing (if thats a word), etc. One of the ones that I hate the most is when I lay down my trap for chain trapping, the puller (some warriors insist they pull, no matter what, thats for another rant though) never pulls or pulls to late, which totally hoses my chain trapping timing.
PS - @Ego, you run so that if trap breaks early (before CD is over) you can Concussion Shot it and provide you with precious time. But it’s a preference. Everything is situational.
Aelion on 06 Sep 2007 at 3:47 pm #
I had several ice traps break early last night in The Caverns of Time, and my solution, as a survival-specced hunter was to activate Deterrence, hit the now freed mob with Wingclip and back away far enough to use Concussive Shot, keep backing up and shooting (Arcane, etc.) until I could lay another ice trap. I used Wyvern Sting once, but it’s a slow shot in such a situation. I had an excellent healer who helped keep me going long enough to make this plan work. (She did chew me out, justifiably, for moving out of range, though.)
Breana on 06 Sep 2007 at 4:00 pm #
To Ego Priest:
Normally it is a good idea to get some distance between you and your target when you laying down another trap because those seconds are VERY important.
Unless you have gear that specifically reduces your cool down, those last few seconds before your trap is up can make or break (no pun indeed) your CC.
Case in point, you have trapped a mob, non-caster, and there is about 10 secs left on the timer and there is about 13 secs on your trap. If you run to a few feet away and your trap breaks, you are often able to place another down and have the mob run right into it before it can cleave its heavy axe into your head. This also helps for traps that break a little early, by running away and placing distance, you will have to ability to kite the mob until a fresh trap is ready.
However, I often place fresh traps next to the foot of my frozen trap is when they are casters. I am a BM hunter and do not have Silencing Shot. Normally, if the set up is done right, I can trap a caster, but after they are trapped it is very difficult to kite them around the room. In that case, I often place a fresh trap right at the their feet and at the angle of where I am going to run to. This way, when it breaks, I am out of their range and they are forced to move a step forward.
Regarding DPS, I really enjoy having high numbers but if I am trapping duty, that become my primary concern and I really don’t miss not having those extra shots. I, personally don’t have a damage meter and really don’t keep track of that. But on the groups that I trap, and someone displays it, I am often in the 1 or 2 slot. Which then brings the question if those lost shots really make that much of a difference?
kakalaki on 06 Sep 2007 at 4:10 pm #
All DPS matters. One shot can be the difference between a victory and a wipe. Thats why I said playing a Hunter is hard to play well. It takes quick thinking to do it. There is so much a Hunter needs to think about. Where to send your pet, where to set the trap, how do I save the priest once the huge guy is running at them, etc. The game is so situational and thats why it’s so hard. Crowd control is only one part of it, and you can’t neglect any of it.
The Egotistical Priest on 06 Sep 2007 at 4:25 pm #
Fweee, so much love for everyone who answered.
1) I’m comforted by the fact that there is no obvious “do this” when things go bad. If there was one and I was missing it, I wanted to know.
2) the advice on the question of to run or not to run was very nicely answered, and I love the addendum concerning caster mobs. Though how you trapped them to begin with minus silencing shot would be interesting to know.
Thank you all verra much!
Zenki & Zulu on 06 Sep 2007 at 4:45 pm #
I never kite my broken trap mobs as the time spent kiting and not dpsing can make all the difference in the outcome of the battle. If I am to trap square, then focus dps on skull but the trap fails, I usually cast misdirect on Zulu and simple melee hit the mob (since it’s in my face)…yes melee works for misdirect but this is the only time I have used it this way. With the mob now ot by pet I can continue to dps the main target until my trap is cooled down and then recall pet to me, mob follows and trap is regained. Distance is critical for chain trapping as it adds the mobs run time to the whole time equation for trap cooldowns.
Also I have found that Blood Furnace is an excellent spot for lvl 70 hunters to practice chain trapping. It’s full of 2 or 3 mob pulls which a hunter and pet can burn down solo fairly quickly. It allows practicing of trapping, timing, and tab targeting just to name a few. Not to mention the first boss can be soloed so if you enchant those shards are nice!
Zenki & Zulu
Sha’halo
Erwinor on 06 Sep 2007 at 5:09 pm #
The Egotistical Priest said…
What should you do if trap breaks early?
What do you do?
Wing clip, kite, scatter shot, concussive shot once at range, kite, send pet in on it. Whatever you have to till your trap is up.
Is there anything wrong with just dropping the trap on the already frozen mob?
I can see it possibly buying you another second on your trap cooldown, but eating into your dps in the meantime.
To help eat up the 10 (6 with the Beastlord 2 piece set bonus) seconds of time between your trap breaking and the cooldown coming up.
See how many traps you can use in a row. Two? Three?
best so far is 10, that was my goal at the time.
Can you chain-trap a Talbuk to Halaa? To Aldor Rise?
Can you get them that far without them reseting? If so, then yes. The hours I’ve spent practicing have payed off. Just a couple of days ago I got my first compliment on my trapping skills, it felt better than seeing my name on the top of the DM list.
Ken Lydell on 06 Sep 2007 at 5:13 pm #
My huntress used Freezing Traps for the first time when she started grinding mobs in Andorhal. Leveling to that point had been very easy and a small working set of skills had been more than adequate.
While finishing off an undead mob, an add started banging on my huntress. Instead of using Deterrence and quickly finishing my target with an Arcane Shot, Multishot series I dropped a Freezing Trap and walked over it. The add then stepped on the trap. After the first mob dropped and my kitty returned, I bandaged my pet and went to work on the second mob. About halfway through the fight another add joined the fray. Once again, I trapped it, finished the second mob, mended my pet and did in the third mob. This was for me a major AHA! experience that started my gradual escape from the Huntard class. BRK has been most helpful in completing my transformation.
Part of the huntard problem is due to players grinding mobs below their level. Green meanies are entirely too easy to kill. Once I developed an appetite for fighting pairs and trios of yellow and orange meanies I was motivated to experiment with previously unused elements of my skill set.
I play 9 alts and have run instances with all of them and never seen a hunter properly use a Freezing Trap. In Outland I have watched other hunters in action take a terrible beating without using a Freezing Trap to root one of the mobs killing them.
Few hunters figure things out in the first half of the game and an amazing number still haven’t figured it out by end game. Hunters suffer from a lack of good examples of trap usage. A skilled class trainer can make a world of difference. However, there seems to be a shortage of them as well.
z-man on 06 Sep 2007 at 5:52 pm #
The part that some people are forgetting is that chain trapping is a new ability. Honestly, I’ve been playing a hunter since day one. Using traps once combat started is new as of 2.0
So in the 2 years 10 months I have been playing a hunter. I have only been able to chain trap for 9 months.
Some habits are hard to break if you have been playing a hunter a long time the thought of being able to use a trap after the start of combat might not be there.
I, on the other hand, figured it out rather early and love this new ablility.
However, even in my early days I used them all the time. Drop Freezing trap if I thought I might get too may mobs. (multi one into it if I needed)
Or in some cases Immolation for the extra DPS on a particularly difficult mob. OR the mob might be immune to serpent sting but not an Immo trap. (This was particularly handy for Air elemental on the plateau before I was better geared)
One tip I just heard but haven’t had time to test is you supposedly can hit a trapped mob with a distracting shot while it is still trapped. This prevents the mob from making a bee-line to who ever is high on the aggro list. This won’t break the trap and help kill time for you to get a fresh trap down.
I personally haven’t tested this, but it comes for a highly regarded source in my guild. Once I get a chance I will post results.
Erwinor on 06 Sep 2007 at 6:00 pm #
z-man said…
One tip I just heard but haven’t had time to test is you supposedly can hit a trapped mob with a distracting shot while it is still trapped. This prevents the mob from making a bee-line to who ever is high on the aggro list. This won’t break the trap and help kill time for you to get a fresh trap down.
Consider it confirmed. I use distracting shot all the time while trapping, it lets you use feign death and still have your mob come to you and your trap instead of the healer.
z-man on 06 Sep 2007 at 6:14 pm #
I’m not talking about a pull shot using distracting I am talking about hitting a trapped mob before the trap breaks.
This doesn’t break the trap and prevents the mob from going where you don’t want it once the trap does break.
I do use a pull shot macro w/ disctracting all the time. However some mobs (usually in an instance) are immune to it.
The Egotistical Priest on 06 Sep 2007 at 6:28 pm #
I have been told (but not confirmed) that a freezing trap is one of the only types of CC that does NOT accumulate hate while the mob is trapped.
This means that if you had aggro on it before you trapped it, you still have aggro when the trap breaks, regardless of the number of heals in the intervening time.
now…heals cast just as the trap breaks are exempt from this rule.
To my chagrin.
Zenki & Zulu on 06 Sep 2007 at 6:56 pm #
@ the egotistical priest:
I believe you are right about not accumulating hate while trapped, which is great for retrapping, but sometimes when trapping in tight areas (hallways and such) the trapped mob may have to run passed the healer or lock to get to the next trap. This causes a problem if the healer casts while the mob passes because most of the time they will pull the mob straight to them. Keep in mind that when trapping the hunter only has one shot of threat going. I constantly try to keep my healers away from my traps and mob paths but this isn’t always possible.
One thing I have found to help is just as the trap breaks and the mob is looking for his target I will pop a trinket to boost my attack power and fire a multishot so I can stay on my main target but still build more threat against my trapping mob. Most of the time that will let the healer get away with a cast as the mob passes. This of course is assuming there are no other cced mobs in range.
Zenki&Zulu
Erwinor on 06 Sep 2007 at 7:02 pm #
z-man said…
I’m not talking about a pull shot using distracting I am talking about hitting a trapped mob before the trap breaks.
This doesn’t break the trap and prevents the mob from going where you don’t want it once the trap does break.
Exactly, I guess I didn’t explain it well enough. The whole time I have a mob trapped, I use distracting shot on it when the CD is up.
The Egotistical Priest said…
I have been told (but not confirmed) that a freezing trap is one of the only types of CC that does NOT accumulate hate while the mob is trapped.
This means that if you had aggro on it before you trapped it, you still have aggro when the trap breaks, regardless of the number of heals in the intervening time.
I’ve heard that same thing, but I’ve never had it confirmed. And I just figure better safe than sorry. The DPS loss from a few distracting shots in a fight is a small price compared to a dead healer.
Mingo on 06 Sep 2007 at 8:37 pm #
I usually ask for 10 seconds after I lay a trap before a pull begins so I can be 10 seconds closer to burning the cooldown when the pull occurs. If my trap is resisted I’m either ready for a second trap or a few moments away.
Also being a BM hunter means I can use intimidate to have my GIR (or Gaz) pick up the resisted mob and hold onto them until I can get another trap down, or the MT/OT picks up aggro (if able). This also works (usually) for pulling aggro away from our healers or other ClothyMcSquishies. Intimidate+Distracting Shot+Arcane Shot seems to do the trick.