Maulgar, WWS, Movies, Blah Blah Blah
If you’re never been in a 25-man raid before, this is what the chaos looks like. Lots of people, lots of idea, lots of schenanigans. Later on we were made Main Assist and had our own little Main Tank window under the “Fulgar’s Target” rectangle.
BRK is Main Assist! Respect our authori-tauh!
We created an ACHUNTERS chat-channel so the three of us could organize our Misdirections, stings, pets, and belittle the lesser classes in private. The healers did something similar. Very highly recommended.
This is BRK fully raid-buffed and ready to do some serious damage. Something very critical to note: your attack power can be buffed, your crit can too, your health, spirit, and intellect can get assistance, you can get heals and mana-regeneration totems and vampiric embrace. But nobody can affect your Hit but you. For bosses of the Karazhan and higher variety, you must get that Hit up there yourself.
One of our favorite sayings is, “Never let squishies tank, even if they beg.” Well apparently our sole mage was required to tank, so the guild has been gathering stamina-gear for him. Do you regularly see mages with 15k health running around Stormwind? We thought not.
It took seven tries to get the initial pull done properly, (maybe more, we quit counting), but once that was solved there’s nothing we can’t burn down. Our first night trying Maulgar and down he went. Keep in mind this was the day after our first attempt and downing of Netherspite. Quite a nice two days work for Aetherial Circle, if we do say so ourselves.
Shoulder-tokens for everybody but hunters, of course. And the big purple [Hammer of the Naaru] dropped too, we had one ridiculously happy holy paladin.
We reset the combat logging after the mage-got-too-close-and-pulled wipe, so there’s only three attempts in this WWS dataset. Not sure if we linked to the downing or not and we can’t check it from work. Besure to select the killing stats. And there were lots of dead people, nine we believe, so don’t take a quick look and say, “ZOMG HE SUX!” just because of low numbers. AND we haven’t received Fio’s data yet either, so we haven’t merged or anything.
Frankly, just enjoy the numbers and don’t make any assumptions yet. We’re certainly not going to.
Hobbes… heck not just Hobbes but all three hunter pets were sacrificed at the start of the fight, so hunter-pet damage is minimal. We grumbled F-THIS and rezed him after the last mini-boss was downed. After thinking about this fight and Hobbes’s quick smooshing, we’re going to respec a little.
Yes, we’re getting Improved Revive Pet and dumping some of the bonus armor. It’s not just Hobbes’s damage we miss, it’s the Ferocious Inspiration buff he provides. Even if he’s not doing 125% damage, the 3% bonus damage he gives everybody is important. His 11000 armor is nothing against these bosses. He can take anybody’s AoE damage but in melee combat he goes down too fast against something that can deal 16k damage with one blow. We want him back quickly and ready to rock. IRP here we come.
You don’t think the Squeekie Priestie would let us down, would you? Course not. Here’s the link to the big movie, too.
Yes, we tried Gruul. First attempt was a “So this is Gruul, nice, very nice, love what you’ve done with the place” run. We did a real try on the next run and got him down to 45%. It was late so we vamoosed with our purplez.
Or the other people vamoosed with their purplez, we just vamoosed.
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47 Responses to “Maulgar, WWS, Movies, Blah Blah Blah”
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Grats to AC on downing Maulgar. He is a chaotic fight the first few times through. The concept of a Mage tanking is weird, but essential for that fight.
Gruul is also chaotic. Much like the Shade of Aran, it takes some practice to get the movements down. Mods like DBM or Big Wigs help a lot with their proximity monitors.
BRK taking Imp Rev Pet? I think I need to sit down …
Here are 2 things I found with tanking the shaman and having my pet on him.
1.My pet dies really fast if he is on him.
2.If my pet does not die and is alive through most of it, I find it a lot harder to move the shaman if myself and the other hunter needs him to move.
Your better off not using hobbes on kaggler. Instead I suggest putting your kitty on HKM or the summoner. That way while your tanking you and everyone in your group still gets FI. The only danger with him being on HKM is the occasionl wirlwind so its a bit tricky.
Grats AC on your kill!
If Maulgar drops his Warhelm, don’t let other people try and bully you in to taking it. Save your DKP!
Unless no one else wants it and it’s gonna’ get sharded and you get it for free and you can still get the piece you want without the Raid Leader saying, “Give you this loot? You just got an epic helm off High King!”… then by all means.
Hammer of the Naaru is Allak item #28800
They made the Hunters sacrafice their pets? I’m calling PETA on them!!
Getting IRP isn’t that big of a deal BRK only initially didn’t take it because it makes no sense to have while soloing. If your pet is dying that much when you are soloing I think you are going down just as much and need to rethink what you are doing as a hunter. In raid/dungeon situations I can see having IRP as a plus.
What Mods are you using.. I like the screen set up..
mage tank FTW..lol
I have had to do that on my alt once or twice its fun but gimping mana is a big cost..
Do NOT put Hobbes on the shaman. If anyone or anything attacks the shaman from melee range he can use his blastwave/knockback ability which wipes agro. This will likely kill your pet and make you lose agro to a healer or someone else. It makes it very hard to control him and tank him where you like.
With a quick arcane/distracting you can gain agro and start tanking him effectively.
Stick Hobbes on the priest or warlock and when it’s time to smack the mage or shaman around just let Hobbes take a break. The amount of time you lose is really quite minimal as the ranged DPS’ers should burn those two down very quickly.
We actually use a Boomkin to tank the shaman but that’s just what we do as we have a very “boomy” boomkin.
Awesome, I enjoy watching these places I’ll likely never see in game! Thanks for sharing….But I have to ask. Who the hell is Hoobes? LOL
What is the first song in the video, I really like it. Abba’s ok just…damn makes me feel old.
Had to delete previous comment as the blog machine ate half the post…
Dear BRK,
ever since I began reading your blog, I was just waiting for you to reach the point in the game when IRP begins becoming better than a little bit more petarmor.
Welcome to the midgame content and the 25mans. ^^
Hobbes is the cat half of BRK.
Grats and check the hammer link: it’s mistyped.
Yes I know who Hobbes is, it was a joke though as in the credits it was spelled Hoobes or am I that tired GY shift FTW and it’s almost 10AM and I’m not in bed yet /sigh
Damn now I’m gonna have to watch the credits again…lol
I think they had hobbes tanking the warlock not the shaman. We had a feral druid tanking the shaman by himself.
Congrats to AC. I’ll watch the video tonight after work.
One thing that caught my attention in your combat chat window was that everything–hits and heals–was a crit. /impressed
I created 2 macros for tanking the shammy. Macro 1 sends my pet (pixie) to attack the seer and re-targets the shammy. The 2nd sends him to the warlock.
Makes it easy to let pixie have fun. Also he is close enough so I can use bestial wrath.
Congrats on killing HKM. We are still stuck on Gruul.
I just checked out the WWS Stats and have a concern. It shows that you used:
43 arcane shots @ 647dmg / 230Mana
17 steady shots @ 575dmg / 110Mana
So, uh… why? Are you down ranking your Arcane Shots and it’s just not showing that? If not, steady shot should never be excluded to allow more Arcane Shot. Someone mentioned in the replies to another post that you had found that arcane is better than steady. It looks here, though, like it costs more than double the mana for only 13% more damage. I know there have been some changes to arcane shot, and unless I’ve overlooked something steady shot should be used MUCH more than arcane shot.
Theorycrafting aside (I mean not trying to estimate damage of different shots), just look at the WWS log. Steady just makes more sense.
Or did I miss something?
I think they had hobbes tanking the warlock not the shaman. We had a feral druid tanking the shaman by himself.
Ok, I watched the video and checked out the WWS of the kill.
That shaman was out of control. Jacemora (the feral tank) took 7 blasts that wiped agro; it smacked people 23 times actually with just it’s PBAoE. You really need a ranged class to tank that guy.
The AoE blast from the mage killed Diyami, Fleshwounds, Heimdall, Anhk, and Xian (twice). All very avoidable if you stay away from the mage.
Those two are not melee friendly and nobody should be anywhere near them at any time.
You’ve got a mage tank who can handle himself just fine it seems. Get 2 hunters or a boomkin to keep that shaman under control and you’ll have it down.
Your guild has proven they can handle positioning; a little practice and situational awareness should make for a much cleaner kill next week.
Oh and a gratz to Doomilias on breaking 900DPS on the trash and taking zero damage.
That is technically enough to out-DPS the Shade of Aran in a typical fight.
@BRK
quote”Yes, we’re getting Improved Revive Pet and dumping some of the bonus armor. It’s not just Hobbes’s damage we miss, it’s the Ferocious Inspiration buff he provides.”
well ya, just wait till u rez him 3 or 4 time during unlucky fights
i have always put my pet on kiggler right after i MD Blindeye to the OT …the second he focuses on him or the other hunters pet, i know we are in trouble and it gives me a second to either get poly to wear off or the other hunter to get agro back
@borrodir
arcane in that situation will help to hold agro …. ur main job is to bounce agro between the 2 hunters right …dmg output at that time is secondary ….
Can someone please explain to me HOW a mage tanks?
-Cynddl and Mugu
@brady – for this particular fight, the mage can spellsteal the fire shield from krosh before he casts his fireball, effectively reducing the damage taken to very little. since hes not taking any physical damage, armor means nothing, hp means everything. buffed he was at 15k, which is kind of ridiculous.
my favorite part of the night was when we were about to do the first trash pull, and the raid leader says “everyone needs to bunch up behind the mobs. hunters, youll have to melee on this guy.” i think i heard BRK weeping in the background…
If you’re looking for max dps, then…
Arcane Shot (every cooldown):
647dmg/6s = 108dps
Steady Shot (between every auto):
575dmg/1.96s = 293dps
Steady Shot is higher dps and more mana efficient. If you really want max dps, you should be using Steady AND Arcane… but if you’re gonna pick just one, always pick steady.
Wait… it think I misread.
Secndworst said:
“arcane in that situation will help to hold agro …. ur main job is to bounce agro between the 2 hunters right …dmg output at that time is secondary ….”
What do you mean? More damage causes more agro. If you want max agro generation, than damage output is the most important goal, and following that mana conservation. Neither jutifies arcane over steady.
if your guild is having the hunters tank the shaman using your pet could be dangerous. send him to some other target or keep him at your side. same thing for the mage target. other than that you should be fine. don’t worry about gruul either, i barely pay attention to my pet in there and he stays around full health every time. just gotta make sure he isn’t fighting in a cave in and you’re good to go.
@doomilias
I always laugh when in raids people argue over loot about this sword or this dagger going to a hunter even if everyone else has something better. their common argument is that Hunters don’t melee.
And being the smart-a@@ Hunter that I am I made a macro for the mobs in MC and other raids that would proclaim – “OMG a Hunter is melee’ing quick get the camera!”.
People would laugh but I do believe others would get butt hurt about it, but I didn’t care. I hate ignorance and I will speak my mind when needed.
Fenrir and Fathgar
@doomillas
quote”everyone needs to bunch up behind the mobs. hunters, youll have to melee on this guy.”
i laugh everytime i hear non deadzone guys say this …. so i go 9 yards and shoot
@borrodir
w/e …i use my normal rotation …1/2 doz of one , six of the other …however u hold agro and works for u …go for it …was just makin conversation …
@borrodir: haven’t checked the video and sure as hell never been there, but maybe the point is *not* to get too much aggro, so that the other hunter can take it over? There’s more time between each arcane than between steady shots, so maybe, and using what doom said, they’re using that time to make him switch from one to the other?
Like I said, haven’t watched the video yet, just guessing!
Also, there’s another advantage in Arcane: it’s instant, meaning it can be used on the run while Steady can’t…
@BRK: Link seems fixed now.
@BRK
This is BRK fully raid-buffed and ready to do some serious damage. Something very critical to note: your attack power can be buffed, your crit can too, your health, spirit, and intellect can get assistance, you can get heals and mana-regeneration totems and vampiric embrace. But nobody can affect your Hit but you. For bosses of the Karazhan and higher variety, you must get that Hit up there yourself.
Not STRICTLY true. On my next respec, I’m probably going to be dropping my starfire stun and getting improved faerie fire. 3% to hit for all physical DPS when my FF is on a target. You may commence your gratified cries of joy.
@someone
Yes the two Hunters have to trade off aggro at times because of a debuff that gets stacked on the Hunters. I forget what it is but I think it is something like increases nature damage to you. It has been awhile since my guild tryed Gruul’s.
We were ambitious and wanted to try Gruul’s even before going into Kara. Boy were we delusional. We wiped on the trash alone.
Actually I need to correct myself, the person on the top of the aggro list with the Shaman will get sheeped, so you need the other Hunter to have enough aggro to take the hits until the other Hunter can get out of the poly.
haven’t checked the video and sure as hell never been there, but maybe the point is *not* to get too much aggro, so that the other hunter can take it over?
The hunters should fight for agro. The highest one will be hexed (turned into a frog, temporary agro wipe) at some point and then the second will take over tanking duty. When the second is hexed the first hex will have long worn off and the first hunter is tanking again.
Always interesting to see different strategies that other guilds use.
Yes, as mentioned earlier, you never want a melee class tanking the shaman because of that knockback he does. Not until it’s time to burn him down should melee be on him (with ranged on the mage and avoiding his blast nova).
My guild likes to have a boomkin and a hunter tanking the shaman. When I’m doing it I have my cat smacking the main DPS target until it’s time to take on the shaman.
Good luck on Gruul, and congratulations on your HKM kill! The pull is the toughest part to get down, whose bright idea was it to make *5* ogres in a single fight?
Yeah, as was stated, you never need to hold back on agro generation on the shaman.
My point is just this – someone mentioned a few posts ago that BRK had decided that Steady Shot was not as good as just using Arcane. I see this WWS log now and it confirms that BRK is using Arcane much more often than Steady, but I think his damage and mana conservation would benefit by using Steady more than Arcane. In fact, most efficient would be Steady and Auto only and most damage would be Steady, Auto, and Arcane. There’s no reason to use Arcane only.
As far as being able to be used on the run, I’ve never had to move while tanking the shaman, though his guild may do it differently than we do.
The hunter’s shoulders suck. The pants you get from Gruul rule.
Oh, one more thing. Gruul is a lot of fun as a hunter. This is where you get to really pour it on. Of course usual rules apply, watch ktm, feign death, etc., to avoid pulling aggro. But the built in split of aggro between hunter and pet is a big plus here. I rarely get even close to the tank in this fight.
As for the Gruul fight in particular I use boss mods to watch for the stomp. You don’t want that stomp to pull you in to gruul or throw you out. You want to be far enough away so it doesn’t affect you. So at about 10 seconds until the stomp, I run away from gruul and hug the wall, typically I’m by the gate. This usually puts you out of the stomp range assuming your tanks are keeping Gruul positioned correctly. Next comes shatter, where you only take damage if others are near you. Boss mods tells you here if anyone is too close. The more people near you the more damage you take. So right after stomp you look to see who’s too close and move away. After the shatter it’s back to pouring on the DPS. Mana management is necessary too. Get your favorite pally to keep up that mana regen thingie and take some fel mana potions as well.
Oh, one more thing the hunters should determine who is keeping scorpid sting on Gruul, this should be on the whole fight. Gruul is a long fight and that 5% adds up.
As you can tell, we pretty much have Gruul’s on farm mode and we’re on to learning Mag.
@ boorodir
Ping Pong is fun!!!
Gratz on that, these videos are gonna help my lowly guild a TON when we get there, 3 cheers for BRK
HIP HIP….
Watched the video again, Love the Druid off tanking in Bear!!
Go Druid!! Sorry Druid is my second favorite class in WoW love to see them in action.
If you love the videos, be sure to get over to the Squeekie Priestie and give her a comment, too.
Priest Karma, right?
Xian always had a dieing problem.
The last time I was in grulls we had a boomkin tank the shamy so that all the hunters could destroy priest… and so on.
Ah, i’m jealous. You’re progressing faster than my guild now, and i can tell by the numbers you’ve been quoting that you’re definitely outperforming us.
I wish there was something i could do to improve my own performance or my guildmates’, but i can’t think of anything i can change about myself, and we just don’t have enough dedicated raiders with good gear to fully equip a 25 member raid. We had several members on our try last night who were equipped mostly in greens (but don’t point it out or you’re a jerk?). I knew we couldn’t succeed after the first try when some dps people were under 400dps, but i can’t just say “i’m not going to do this any more” and leave. I have a duty to stick around for the whole thing and learn what i can from each try.
So those guildmates need more dungeon runs, i guess, and they need to get their keys for karazhan and spend some time in it. I have to keep myself available as a tank, dps, or healer depending on what they need.
“several” could be an exaggeration.
We have a hunter pet pull and misdirect Maulgar to the MT. I sit off to the side in my 220NR gear with my pet on passive and stay… BAM! Pop BW, heroic trinket, mark and start blasting Ziggler. I’m top on aggro and not feeling a thing from his lightning bolts. The hunter who pulled to MT pops this macro
/assist pelides
/startattack
Bang! He’s second on aggro… then I…
Misdirect to my second hunter before I get sheeped so he’s in #2 aggro on Ziggler and he doesn’t go marching all over the place.
Hunter #2 and I ping pong aggro back and forth until Ziggler’s time to die comes. When he’s down, I feign, pop back into my dps gear and send Klaatu, my badass ravager at HKM and dps away.
If you’re one of the hunter tanks in this fight… best just to keep your pet at your side so you get your +damage bonus from him simply being out. If you send him at one of the mobs, he’s gonna get wasted. Save your pet for Maulgar himself…. and don’t waste the mana for a pet res.
If you’re the hunter tank in the fight… your job is to tank Ziggler and not dps with your pet. Keep Ziggler away from the raid and everybody wins.
(Just make sure you have a healer who knows it’s his/her responsibility to heal you. Our Maulgar last night was ugly because my healer was off healing the rest of the raid and I went down like a lead balloon and hunter #2 was soon to follow. Very messy!
lol Hoobes..
I truly recommend getting 1, or even better 2, boomkins to tank the shaman at range.
Our guild (Haven of EU Azjol-Nerub)took down Maulgar the first couple of times with only 1 boomkin tanking the shaman.
For Maulgar, as many allready have said, getting the pull right is the hard part. As soon as everyone knows where to pull their mob, who to kill first (Priest – Lock – Shaman – Mage – Maulgar) then he’s just a loot-piñata! 2 T4 shoulders every week is nice
Grats on the kill
Grats on the mulgor kill and progression into TBC 25 man raids
(Which are strange when your used to 40 mans….)
We’ve always used hunters to tank the shamen. Depending on the number of hunters depends on who gets to pull who. But a neat trick we learnt on sunday was when I was picking up the shamen on the pull. I MD’d my pet and had it on stay. He blasts the mog a few times then polymorphs it. This has given time for me to be his next target, the other 1 or 2 hunters to get back from MD tasks and be on the list by the time my polymorph happens. Perfect control achieved
Please tell me what addons/UI is used in this screenshot of maulgor. This is how I want my UI to look, buttons in the center, rounded, nice clean display of characters, etc. Thanks.
Grats on High King! Gruul is in trouble.
1) Shatter positioning.
2) Silence and healing.
3) DPS before too many growths.
= epics! I’m sure you guys will keep up the great work, look forward to the Gruul post.
Did I read that correctly that BRK topped the damage meters in the HKM kill with 70% of his damage coming from autoshot? Ouch.