We Love Speed
“Dear BRK … [I] did Shattered Halls tonight for the first time. Nice run except for breaking my own traps. /bangs head.
“However the bonus was that the Skyfire Hawk Bow dropped and I won the roll. Given I have the Valanos and so did the other hunter we thought about DE’ing it. However I felt that the higher hit rating and slightly more ap was an improvement over the +crit of the Valanos. What are your thoughts? Kolan & Jaguar.”
First off, no more breaking your own traps. Remember your Pullshot Macro:
/cast Arcane Shot(Rank 1)
/stopcasting
Get that on your action bars, pronto.
As for the gear, let’s take a looksie!
Valanos’ Longbow
130 - 242 Damage Speed 2.80
(66.4 damage per second)
+10 Intellect
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 10.
Equip: Increases attack power by 22.
Skyfire Hawk-Bow
108 - 202 Damage Speed 2.40
(64.6 damage per second)
Equip: Improves hit rating by 14.
Equip: Increases attack power by 26.
OK, so these are both 65-DPS-Class ranged weapons. The SHB has less pure DPS but the +Hit is nice when you break into Karazhan. The Valanos is, of course, a world drop an easily bought on the Auction House; you see these everywhere.
Is there a huge reason one should choose either based upon these stats? Not really, no. If you’re a SV hunter, the Valanos is probably your choice because you’re trying to jam that +Crit as high as you can. But for BM and MM hunters, the stats we’ve talked about here aren’t anything drastically dissimilar.
What is the big difference for MM and BM spec here? The attack speed. Notice that the Valanos is a 2.8 seconds per shot and the Skyfire is 2.4 seconds per shot.
If you’re a Marksman hunter, you’re probably going to want the Valanos for the bigger crits that are the hallmark of your spec. Big RAP and slow weapons equals mongo-crits and a happy MM hunter.
If you’re a Beastmaster hunter, you should have Serpent’s Swiftness and maybe IAotH. Put these talents together with a 2.4-ranged weapon and you’re a frickin’ maching gun, causing frequent crits which spawn Kill Commands and, if you have Go For The Crotch - we mean, Throat! If you have GftT, your crits build Focus which make your pet do even more damage. The BM spec is about pet-damage and haste, so you might like the SHB a lot.
“BUT BRK!! Everyone knows that Auto/Steady works best with a 2.7 ranged weapon! You’ve got to take the Valanos as it’s closer to that!”
/sigh
Fine. Go ahead. Do your auto/steady macro and use the Valanos if that’s your playstyle.
Let’s say you’re right. Let’s say a BM hunter will do 10DPS more with the Valanos than the SHB. But what if a BM hunter combines his 2.4 SHB and Serpent’s Swiftness and IAotH and Rapid Fire and a haste trinket and morphs into a Massive Arrow-Depletion Brigade with a firing-rate of 1.4 and expending arrows at a rate that would make Rambo proud. Wouldn’t that be fun?!
We think there should be more to playing a hunter than spamming an auto/steady macro if for no other reason than it’s more fun to get involved with the shot rotation, modify it based upon specific situations, and working hard to maximize one’s DPS while launching more ammo against a target than anybody has even seen.
But that’s just how we roll; you might like slapping your F5 key for three hours. Do what ya gotta do.
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22 Responses to “We Love Speed”
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well it’s really more a matter of rolling your scroll wheel than slapping the f5 key if you want to maximize your laziness *shifty eyes*
Although I must say that I definitely agree with you that not using any one shot rotation definitely has its advantages. When I want stuff to die really fast I stop the mana efficient scrolling and start slamming rapid fire, arcane, multi and other goodness
I really think you are misrepresenting the position of those advocating the Steady Shot macro here. People using that macro also modify their shot rotation for specific situations. The point isn’t to endlessly spam the same key. The idea behind those macros is that when you are using an Auto Shot/Steady Shot rotation, human error will normally significantly reduce your dps, and you want to eliminate that.
When I first got Steady Shot, I got a casting time addon so that I could try to cast my Steady Shot right after an Auto Shot. I noticed two things. The first was that my attention was totally focused on timing my Steady Shots to avoid clipping. The second was that even with all my focus, I’d ocassionally clip shots. Even if it only happened every 10 or 20 shots, that was a significant loss of dps.
I started using a Steady Shot macro, and I have more focus available for more important parts of my class, and I don’t have the problem of accidentally firing a Steady Shot before an Auto Shot and pushing my Auto Shots back significantly.
Now, you might say I’ve removed the skill involved in fitting my Steady Shots between my Auto Shots. But I’d say the “skill” of hitting a key in a half second window once every two seconds is not one I’m especially concerned with. I’m much more interested in developing the skills involved in placing traps, deciding when to use damage boosting cooldowns, managing my pet, managing aggro, etc… is far more interesting, and I have more mental resources to devote to that now.
If you think that people who use this macro just mindlessly spam it, though, you are really creating a straw man. I still drop traps, use cooldowns, mend pet, and use all my other abilities during fights. I’ll stop using Steady Shot when my haste gets too high, and I’ve even tried weaving Arcane and Multi Shot in place of Steady Shots, although I was really disappointed with how little my damage increased given the huge mana expense. The only differences from how I played without a macro is that I can better focus on the battle while dpsing, and I don’t clip shots anymore.
Regarding the weapon speeds, the strength to Valanos is that most of the time you will want to be mixing Steady Shots in between Auto Shots, and you will probably only be able to do that without clipping on Valanos. SHB might perform better when you blow all your cooldowns, but that is a small portion of a fight. I’d choose the weapon which is better for 90% of the fight.
Collin
I run with the Skyfire Hawk-Bow. Even though there is not a big difference in stats between Skyfire Hawk-Bow and Valanos’ Longbow, the skyfire provides more DPS with those good BM talents. On a good day, after popping rapid fire and a trinket and weaving in a steady between auto shots (no macro, but the timing takes practice), I’ve had a few tanks who are left wondering how the hell I generated so much threat per second all of a sudden. Pop TBW as well, and watch the 4-digit numbers start flying on the screen and that lass 3% of the boss’s health go *poof*
If you want to do a DPS test, go to Area 52, but some cheap ammo and go get up on the rocks next to Dr. Boom, where no mobs can get to you, and start testing (also a good place to level up neglected ranged weapons skills)
-Ripcat & Silence
I wish I could manually weave shots… I really truly do. I would replace steady with MS and Arcane whenever I could. I would bump up my DPS. I would proudly say I’m not a key-masher.
But I can’t.
There is sooooo much going on during a typical 25 man raid. Pot CD is up, gotta chug another. Trinkey’s up, click that bastard. Pet’s getting cleaved, reposition him. MD is up, fire it up again. FD is up. Scorpid sting is fading. Click on that cube! Kill that spitfire totem! Spout! dive dive dive… (yeah i’m mixing my fights here, but you get the picture)
It’s one less thing that my very limited brain needs to keep track of. I just mash one key and the shots and Kill Commands keep flying. I wish I didn’t have to do that. Why KC can’t just happen automatically on every crit if the cooldown is up? Why is scorpid sting only 20 seconds? bah
Hi, my name is Cuttooth and I’m a key-masher
OK, 2.0 is the “magic number” for a auto-steady rotation with 1.5 for steady and the .5 for auto. So with a 2.4, a BM hunter wouldn’t need to go 5/5 in Serpents Swiftness to get their speed down around 2.0. Which would open up 1 or 2 points to use elsewhere, while still maintaining the auto-steady rotation.
But the machine gun effect is fun, Rapid fire, the abacus, and heroism puts me down under 1 sec autos. Turns my Wolfslayer into a an M-60
well, yes and no …. macro or to not macro is not the question. the question is “what does the situation require to get done?”
in SSc and TK there are some fights where u can just stand still and hammer the macro and burn through your trinkets/pots/talents etc etc for max damage and there’s some fights where you move pretty much all the time and have to weave shots. to say egotistically that not using the macro makes you a better hunter …. not necessarily. just shows if you don’t have to use the macro, your guild needs better sp/locks/mages’/rogues. if they not pushing you to squeeze every fraction of a dps out of your setup, then your talking from a weak guild position and your going to have major problems come dps race time phase 3 Vashj ….. imo btw
but yes, you still have to understand and have the ability to weave shots, and the macro only folks, will never perform well overall in the harder instances.
Now with all the speak of auto steady, and weapon attack speed. Ive think heard that haste (serpents swiftness and rapid fire included) also lowers the casting time of steady (and aimed) shot. is that just bull-shit? if not, then why isnt the “optimal” attack speed lower than 2.0?
when i was leveling from 50-60 i used a hurricane (1.6 base speed) as full BM with SS and IAotH. you wanna talk about machine gun fire? whenever IAotH would proc i’d see if rapid fire was cooled down just so i could see my little orc hunter nearly break his arms trying to load arrows and fire them fast enough.
Just picked up the Wrathfire Hand Cannon with it’s 2.0 attack speed and I must say, my poor little pet is working his heart out with all the focus and extra attacks from Kill Command. It’s a bloody crit fest, and while I am not on the top of the DPS chart (I usually sit in the middle) I am always the one still firing after everyone else has been feared away because of The Beast Within and Hawk Eye. Yes yes yes, I know, it’s not your suggested build, but it’s working VERY well for me right now as a functional hunter. While I don’t have Mortal Shots, I do find the Spirit Bond and Bestial Discipline mod out my talent spec to fit my playstyle better. Add rapid killing to this nasty soup and… well, wow… ratatata-crit-kill-ratatata-crit-crit-kill-ratatata…
Many times I find I am critting so often that I build another kill command immediately after the previous one was used and it disappears before the use-timer runs out so I am actually losing kill commands! Faster attack speeds FTW!!!
My build: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Perenolde&n=Knotbeard
Great, now I’m back to my indecision between Lohn’goron, Bow of the Torn-heart and Valanos. I’ve been rocking the Valanos for a while, but thinking back to the couple of days I used Lohn’goron.
Any love for that bow or is Valanos still better than it (let’s face it, Lohn’goron looks way better).
http://thottbot.com/i31072
I agree with BRK that I don’t want to be sitting there plugging away at a macro and thats my entire attack I like have to click multiple buttons so that I am more alert as to what is going on.
Actually I would love to see the Large Red One address the issue of shot timing (not rotation) in a post. My instinct is to not use a macro and do everything myself TYVM, but I have tested myself and The Holy Dee Pee Ess is higher when I use the macro. It makes me to cry but The Holy Dee Pee Ess is all. I normally fire Kill Command manually if I am not having to concentrate on anything else at the time (”Oh, yeah, I was supposed to warn about the enfeeble. Sorry about that guys. Guys?…”) and I weave in Arcane and/or Multi in situations where I want to front-load damage, but there seems to be something about the basic mechanics of clipping I don’t understand. So an “Shot Timing Explained In Words of One Syllable Especially for That Noob Down There In The Comments” would be really helpful
@insufficiently
(”Oh, yeah, I was supposed to warn about the enfeeble. Sorry about that guys. Guys?…”)
rofl …thats awesome
“We think there should be more to playing a hunter than spamming an auto/steady macro if for no other reason than it’s more fun to get involved with the shot rotation, modify it based upon specific situations, and working hard to maximize one’s DPS while launching more ammo against a target than anybody has even seen.”
Best paragraph you ever posted, but that’s just my opinion. I can’t imagine not being able to adjust my shot rotation on the fly
I have never used a macro and have always been forced, through my ignorance of macro composition, to manually control all activities of my hunter during all situations of online play. I could not imagine playing with macros…
Hey BRK,
Thanks for the reply. I had also meant to mention the speed in my original email but it was late. lol
I will get that pull macro set up properly tonight.
Cheers
Kolan & Jag
I prefer the 3 key to the F5 key…
I add my “Amen” to Knotbeard’s comment. To me, it’s like driving with cruise control versus my 4-wheel drive Jeep. I want to be actively involved in the mechanics of fighting.
Two days ago, I helped guildies with Ring of Blood. Gad, I hate that quest but you can see in an instant who is and is not ready to take on bigger, badder, meaner mobs. As our tank had to leave, a tricked out PVP warrior took his space. His opening words, “Watch how much damage I do.”
I will pause here to let you readers wipe whatever you were drinking off your monitor. I’m sorry. I should have warned you.
What you also need to know is, 2 guildies needed this done (Can you say, “time sink”?) AND I was on the phone the entire time with my Guild Leader trying to get some guild messiness tidied up.
I do not use macros. Opening shot was MD onto the warrior. UrsaMajor did not have growl on. I watched for 5, count ‘em, 5 sunders before doing any spell shots. I’ll be nice and let the boy build up aggro.
I honestly have no idea how many times we had to kill the bosses before getting the final one down because I was on the phone. The warrior asked if anyone had a damage meter running and I do. After each successful fight, he would ask, “Number one, right?” He never was by as much as 20%.
If I didn’t send Ursa into the fight right away and hit BW, we wiped. If I didn’t, after using all the MD shots, start monitoring my trinkets, my arcane/steady/auto rotation, a multi as soon as it cooled down, we wiped. In this quest, I never used traps, but in an instance, I would also be monitoring trap cooldown and which mob is currently popsicled.
Yes, I pulled aggro more than I wanted to. But rather than “F” keying something, I prefer the action of deciding I’m generating more threat with the above shot rotation and changing in mid-battle.
As hun-ters and not huntards, we need to be on top of things, changing and adapting as the fight goes. For me, it works better not to have macros. I applaud you if you do as long as you are providing massive amounts of sustained dps and helping your group take down the mob.
And my first ever run through SH netted Skyfire, too. No one in my group was going to take it, not even to vendor. I prefer a gun and use the one you get from the Consortium when you’re revered. But, there is just something magical about having all my weapons skills at 350. It was fun to use and the comments from guildies were priceless. “OMG, Gimmy’s using a bow? The world is ending!” I still have it with an empty quiver taking up space in the bank. I think it looks cool on me. The Valanos would clash with my outfit.
Gimmlette and UrsaMajor
@Kolan & Jag:
I will get that pull macro set up properly tonight.
Please don’t do that - BRK is hopelessly stubborn when it comes to his “pull macro”. There’s a much better way to prepare for a fight where you have to trap.
You are going to use the “Focus” feature to trap your assigned target, without having him targetted.
You’ll need 3 macros:
#1) /set focus=target
#2) /cast [target=focus] Arcane Shot
#3) /cast [target=focus] Distracting Shot
The first one sets your current target as the “focus” target (stored with the “focus” ID). The other two fire the specified shots (max rank) at the focus, regardless of what you are currently targeting.
For each fight, you first select your assigned trap target, and set it as the focus (Macro #1). Once that is done, select the “burn this down first” target, set your trap, Hunter’s Mark.
When the pull happens, hit the “shot” macros (#2 and #3) - you’ll fire those shots at the Focused mob (not your target, but the one you set previously). You will also start up Autoshot, but you’re targeting the correct mob and have ZERO risk of breaking your trap (or anyone else’s CC).
@jabari
Yeah, but not exactly ZERO risk hehe…
So… I was playing with chickens in Shatt the other days while waiting in arenas queue. My favourite game is called Distract the chicken. You fire your Distract +/stopcasting at it and it launches like a rocket into the wall. It is so frightned that it goes right through the wall like a rocket with a purple particle trail. Good times. Except I killed one of the chickens by accident
What had happened was… I had my Romulo’s trinket equipped and it proc’ced on the Distracting shot. Lesson of the story, be careful when you do that to a trapped mob.
–Cut
Okay. Let’s go, little ladies.
FIRST.
If you are BM, you spam the macro. You don’t make changes to your rotation. You don’t experiment. You don’t weave. You spam one button and manage cooldowns or you are at a loss of DPS and mana.
SECOND.
Your pull macro is ignorant, BRK. For one, if you want the lowest possible threat, you’d use Distracting Shot (Rank 1). For two, a more interesting set of macros would be…
/focus
/tar focus
/cast Distracting Shot
/targetlasttarget
/tar focus
/cast Distracting Shot (Rank 1)
/targetlasttarget
Q: WAIT! You used three lines instead of one!
A: Well, yes. But, I’ve seen [Target=focus] bug out OFTEN, and this does the EXACT same thing.
Q: Do you do this?
A: No. Real hunters aren’t morons that need macros to do EVERYTHING for us. This requires no real human timing, unlike a shot macro.
THIRD.
BRK. For telling someone they should CLIP THEIR ROTATION WITH 1.4 ATTACK SPEED, you should delete your hunter, blog, and all internet browsers.
~ Hybrys/Malfurion A
Is distracting shot (Rank 1) really less threat than Arcane? That seems counter-intuitive, but I don’t have my WoW pooter in front of me to test it out. I would think distracting shot, even at rank one, would cause more threat than arcane because that’s what it is designed to do. Not so?
And Hybrys, I think there’s something to be said for having flexibility, and being able to break away from spamming the shot macro. Yes, fairly often that is all you may need, but there are times when standing and macroing simply won’t work in a fight.