Do A Little Quiz, Send a Little Love
“Dear BRK, just wanted to write and say thanks. I recently switched to a new guild and last night scored a last-minute open DPS spot for Gruul’s.
“While I didn’t top the damage meters, I did what I was supposed to, pet stayed up, gave the three rogues in my group that delicious Ferocious Inspiration buff and I managed to wind up securely in the middle of the damagemeters after the gruul fight. I put out more DPS in my blues & purples then both epicly-geared MM hunters and walked away with the gloves Gruul drops. Not bad for my first time in there and first 25-man raid.
“I’m an avid fan of the site and have recommended it to many aspiring hunters. Having your advice and that of the readers of the site combined with the snazzy BRK worldwide amalgamated productions video and lecture series helped me to understand what my role in those fights are, (and not like a total n00b).
“So thanks BRK, your hard work on this site has helped me walk into my first 25 man raid and not only walk away with epic loots, but more importantly set me up to show my stuff as a hunter. Thanks again BRK! Ripcat & Silence”
Quiz Time! What do you think the most important aspect of this email is?
A. BRK’s ego swells massively with such missives.
B. The BRK Hunter-Guide movies are getting great reviews.
C. Ripcat’s raid leader understands the tremendous benefits of BM hunters to raid-DPS.
Even though that raid had multiple Marksman hunters, when they have a DPS-opening they said, “h3llz yeah, bring your BM-hunter bad@ss self to Gruul’s”. They slapped him and his 3%-to-all-damage Ferocious Inspiration buff with the DPS-machine rogues, and we’re sure they celebrated mightily. That raid leader did a great job of recognizing how to maximize the DPS of his group.
Also, Ripcat kept his pet alive, ensuring that FI stayed up the entire fight. Keeping your BM-pet alive is critical because FI is what your rogues, mages, warlocks, boomkins, druid-kitties, arms-warriors, non-resto-shaman, ret-pallys (all three of them), and other hunters crave. If you’re BM, keep that pet up. Respec him for every instance, get Improved Mend Pet and Improved Revive Pet. Ask for pet-buffs from your druids, priests, and paladins. Let the pet-love flow.
As for being in the middle of the pack DPS-wise, we would love to see if Ripcat was running DamageMeters and was including his pet in his totals. That would be nice to know; we’d place a wager that Silence was not included.
WoW Web Stats, folks. We cannot emphasize enough how tremendous a tool this is. Get it, learn it, love it. Grab CLSaver while you’re at it and automate your combatlog. The next time you’ve got a story like this to tell, send us an email and include your WWS report link, the anonymous report if you prefer is fine.
Someday we’ll get to our “How to WWS” blog post, we promise.
Felandra on 07 Nov 2007 at 3:18 pm #
Oh yes, please do make a “How to WWS”.
However, note that he did more damage than the two MM hunters, meaning that it is highly likely that the pets were indeed included. Simply put it is unlikely that an epic MM will do less damage than a green/blue BM when not counting the pets.
Anonymous on 07 Nov 2007 at 3:18 pm #
sorry for n00bish question, but does FI description “all party members have all damage increased by 3%” mean that all raid members gain that 3% increase or just the group that I’m in?
Anonymous on 07 Nov 2007 at 3:32 pm #
Afraid that party is the 5 person part of the raid your in, so no going around with 4 healers in your group, find yourself those people with bloodlust in their eyes and give them a hug!
BRK on 07 Nov 2007 at 3:37 pm #
All members of the BM-hunter’s party, not the entire raid, experience the 3%-bonus-damage.
Also, Ferocious Inspiration stacks. We had three BM hunters in our last Gruul-run and seeing all three FI buffs on the screen was wicked-cool.
As for the pets-not-included arguement, gear is not an indication of play-quality. Perhaps these MM hunters were just superbly craptacular…
Anonymous on 07 Nov 2007 at 3:39 pm #
another vote for a WWS/CombatLog/DMG Meters guide/how-to… I’m MM and generally keep my pet *not* included in DMG Meter ‘cos I wanna see how I’m doing alone and w/e pet does is “bonus” damage… (no complaints on my DMG output in heroics and instances… scheduling difficulties have kept me out of Kara etc so far… WTB early morning raids, graveyard shift ftl)
2ndworst on 07 Nov 2007 at 3:55 pm #
@BRK
yes, understanding WWS would be an awesome artical and for the future, do a artical on swstats also. how you can set it to see who’s doing damage to what mobs when it’s called out. (ie the chains on Illhoof, the spitfire totems on Fathom-Lord, eggs on Kael etc.) the instant feedback is awesome and it’s amazing that folks will up their damage on these things when they find out your watching. slackers beware.
Anonymous on 07 Nov 2007 at 4:23 pm #
I noticed that you are starting to convert to more and more wowace mods, grats to you! I love the ease of updates.
Something you might want to try to replace your CLSaver, a wowace mod called Loggerhead. Easy one click on/off, and FU Bar support! Try it, love it!
On another note, I assume I can speak of the infamous Sonic Spear now that you have your Legacy. Well…. my 67 Hunter just got it on his first SL run! =D WOO HOO!! Slapped a +35agi on it, now to get to 70. =)
Brodir from Blackhand
Arren on 07 Nov 2007 at 4:44 pm #
BRK, I know you supposedly gave the answer to your little pop quiz, but I’m still going with “A” as my choice. Somehow, someway, I don’t think I failed
Anonymous on 07 Nov 2007 at 6:36 pm #
I’m hoping that all of you who have a damage meter up and running are using it as yet another tool in getting your dps up. One of our guild members did a Kara run with friends of his and a person posted a damager meter after the first couple of fights. The raid leader stopped the raid, screamed “THIS IS NOT A CONTEST TO SEE WHO IS FIRST!” and promptly booted the guy from the raid. They had to spend the next 45 minutes trying to find a sub. If it becomes all about topping the dps meter, it seems to me one isn’t paying attention to the other aspects BRK talks about on these pages.
Ran LBRS for fun with 3 50’s level guild members and a 62 MM hunter. He had tried going BM but the first time he hit Bestial Wrath and his polar bear from Darkshore turned red and grew twice in size, he said he lost control of the fight. “I’m sorry, Gimmy, but a bear with scarlet fever is not my idea of fun.” So with much groveling, he went back to MM. Fine. BM is not for everyone and far be it for me to tell him how to play his char.
And yet, last night, …granted I’m a 70, doing a 52-60 instance. I think this guy has great, great potential for our guild and I made him pull mobs. I made him trap. After the first boss was down, my dps was 62% of the total. There is silence on Vent and then, “Damn, Gimm. I can’t come anywhere close to you. What am I not doing that you are doing?”
I don’t understand the MM tree and won’t pretend I do. But thanks to BRK and the “Hunter Guide movies”, I understand what we’re supposed to be doing.
Somewhere in these bags I think I still have a stein of ale from Brewfest. A toast in your general direction, BRK. Keep the advice and the movies coming.
Gimmlette and UrsaMajor
Chromaoran on 07 Nov 2007 at 6:40 pm #
DamageMeters is so buggy my last two guilds banned it. No hunter should ever use it imho. I did once and then I learned the truth - it suxorz.
Get “Recount” or another meter that utilises the omen/ktm data and doesn’t ever stuff up pet info. BRK you promote the webstats which I suspect uses the good engine but then also mention the damagemeters dud..??
p.s. 2.3 official release date 13th nov dependent on no major bugs with current ptr build.
p.p.s BRK I still remember the first time someone suggested I read you blog. Awesome job here. It really has made my life as a BM hunter so much more fun.
Anonymous on 07 Nov 2007 at 6:40 pm #
Please stop listing DamageMeters as some type of accurate addon for DPS. It’s terribly inaccurate and depend on everyone being within certain proximity or having DamageMeters running. I strongly advocate the use of SWStats or Recount to track all damage/healing/interrupts/etc. In the past I did not know any better and was repeatedly and consistenly shown how much difference there was in the #s.
Vaerlin on 07 Nov 2007 at 8:05 pm #
For those of you with guilds that have MM hunters who just can’t seem to put out that damage, well… blizz nerfed the spec into a PvP spec.
Before the scorpid nerf, in Grull and Mag and early SSC/TK level gear and raids, we had 3 very skilled hunters in our guild.
One of each spec. On average, our dps was probably equal. Some fights are very un pet friendly, some are VERY pet friendly. There was no doubt that on a tank and spank mob that the BM hunter could push out the most dps by himself. But with all raid buffs up and debuffs on the boss and the scorpid with it’s massive RAP scaling damage… well, the MM hunter was very competitive in dps. (And if you do some careful testing with good rogues, they’ll be able to show you that TSA is better than FI at that gear level, however… FI is always better for casters)
No longer. I always raided as MM with alot of care for my pet (I was the only hunter I knew to always, and I meant always, use his pet raiding, it’s been called out by Rajax, teleported by Domo, etc…) and I was ecstatic when I got my scorpid. It was like a not so overpowered wind serpent (in the old days) it was the perfect MM pet for a while. Alas, no more.
MM requires a VERY skilled player with a good ping to be viable. The critical timings on the complex and long shot rotations along with constant care of mana (you kind of have to learn each fight to figure how hard you can go or when/if you need to pot to end up with 0 mana just as the fight ends) make MM a tough spec to put out dps with. It is possible, but it’s not the same as grabbing some BM macro bot that can spam one button and top the damage meters. A good MM hunter has to be very focused all the time to be successful in a raid. When I was raiding with my hunter as MM, I’ve topped the WWS damage meters on Mag and Gruul as MM. Rarely, though I was consistently in the top 5 (depends on how my pet did, MM pets require alot more micro because they’re more fragile).
The point wasn’t who was on top, but that our synergy made each of us much more powerful than if we had all been BM. I don’t feel this is the case anymore, and MM isn’t worth the effort. After the 2.3 changes, just tell your hunters to spec BM, get a mouse clicking circuit, and hover the pointer over their steady/auto macro. Gogo blizzard development team!
However, if you’re honestly curious about tips that can make MM do good dee pee ess, feel free to drop me a line.
Anonymous on 07 Nov 2007 at 9:49 pm #
@Vaerlin
I’m a little confused about the mention of a single click macro that will allow a BM hunter to top damage charts and how MM is more micro management. Last time I checked the damage done from a MM hunter’s pet is negligible compared to that of a BM pet. If your pet goes down mid fight not too big of a deal, if mine does I lose about 40% of my damage. Seems like a BM pet would require more micro management. Also, I almost always top the damage charts when I run with my guild. Albiet I am not at Kara level, I can’t even run any heroics. Yet I out DPS most of my guild members, of any class, many of whom are in Kara. I do this without a “steady shot macro.” Maybe raiding is a huge change in the way you have to play. By your description, i.e. perfect shot rotations/timing or a single click macro, I really don’t want to raid, sounds more like a job than like a game.
Jables & Thor on Korialstrasz
Anonymous on 07 Nov 2007 at 10:05 pm #
Njoy it for the last week boys. MM is finaly coming back like a storm with 2.3.
Now maybe we can get back a bit of variety into our class rather then 10 thousand bm hunters with cats set on aggresive running around acting original. /petattack /afk /bored
btw: shot rotations and knowing when your autoshot is going to fire IS the meaning of being a hunter. If your BM specced in blues and you are beating MM specked hunters in a raid then not only are you a burden to your healers, your also in a terribly composed raid with noob huntards. or delusional.
Being an MM hunter is about SUPPORT, which is odd seeing as we are a support class /whodathunk. im sure that the 2% dmg buff is much more needed in a raid then improved traps or silencing shot. reroll locks/mages and qq some more.
Sayth on 07 Nov 2007 at 10:15 pm #
Indeed, since Aimed shot was hit with the nerfbat MM DPS took a big hit.
Is there a rational reason at all to spec MM (except for PvP)?
In the lowlevel and midlevel raids BM DPS is clearly better.
If you have an aversion against simple and tight shot rotations like the BM one you can still stack AGI and spec SV.
This way you will do nearly the same damage as you would do as MM, have more utility and most important: give that yummy raid wide AP buff to all physical DPS.
Sayth of EU-Gorgonnash
2ndworst on 07 Nov 2007 at 10:40 pm #
@Anonymous
Vaerlin has some very good points but the underlying tone is what a lot of MM hunters use to fall back on when they realize their spec cannot compete in PvE tank and spank situations. They all say the same thing, “one button smashfest”.
it’s hardly that at all, as i use anywhere from a low of 11 buttons to a high of 21 buttons in some fights. because i put 3 of those buttons in a macro somehow makes me inferior. Please …. anyone who says that is very tunnel visioned and is missing the big picture. and that is the success of the raid period.
***if your purpose in a raid is massive dps, then it’s your responsibility to do everything you can to up that dps.***
for fights like Vashj, you do not have any room for error and 1% less dps by someone your counting on to be in the top 3 could spell the difference between success or failure, let alone be 5% behind.
so don’t use the macro, i don’t care, but then why are you flasking or using CastBar Mods? Oh, to up your dps you say …. well … so am I.
don’t be hatin if you can’t keep up.
Now to qualify, if all i did was to hit the one button and watch TV …. then they have a point. But, trinkets, pots, pets, traps, aspects, weaving shots while moving etc., don’t happen by themselves.
Yes , any spec is viable and whatever you feel will make you happy, then go for it. I personally also like the Glass cannon SV hunter approach to things.
but right now my raiding spec is BM max damage and that may change if there’s a better way to help the raid.
2ndworst on 07 Nov 2007 at 10:57 pm #
something i thought of after Sayth said that “and spec SV.
This way you will do nearly the same damage as you would do as MM”
thats funny …. SV hunters bring 25% of their agi as atk pwr buff to any physical damager doer in the raid, thats like 250 extra atk power each, over a fight that will translate to like and extra 100k damage ….if you could find a way to add that to their damage total, they would top the meters everytime …the value they bring to a raid is huge and we bring one to every raid. unfortunately, you only need one.
saying that is like the clothies arguing that we can’t count the pets damage as ours …..
Anonymous on 07 Nov 2007 at 11:20 pm #
I have to say, playing Survival is quite fun. I love feeling important (I just broke 1150 agi raid buffed, WITHOUT a totem. So, like, 300 AP to the 5 melee we bring?), and I love having to time my shots.
And I do more DPS than most MM hunters I’ve seen anyway. MM is a PvP spec. There is no long ANY lure for it, because it’s buff is terrible and static, and it’s DPS is sub-par.
2ndworst on 08 Nov 2007 at 6:22 am #
@Anonymous
it’s more than just melee ..it’s 300 atk pwr to any physical damage dealer ….. includes hunters too.
Anonymous on 08 Nov 2007 at 11:56 am #
Vaerlin
I love MM and enjoy playing it. Yes I went BM and yes my DPS went up (not rocketed, went up).
So any tips on how to be a better MM are very useful.
BTW I am in Kara most nights but my DPS is never going to be up there as I spend so much time trapping etc.
Anonymous on 08 Nov 2007 at 5:31 pm #
But…but…is it all about “providing massive amounts of sustained dps”? If that’s the case, then Ima plant my little tushie here on top of this grassy knoll, hit Bestial Wrath, send in da bear and blow dem suckas away.
That works if you’re going solo or in a low level instance. But, last time I checked, Kara, Serpentshrine, Gruul, all required more than one person to go with you and not to hold your hand.
Chromaoran and others make a good point about Damage Meters and their unreliability. I participated in an MC run. Three people with damage meters, three completely different dps results. I’ll repeat myself, if you use a damage meter only to see if you can be #1, you’re not doing all the things that contribute to the success of a group.
Come on, a good hunter, not a huntard, knows her shot rotation, knows what works well against certain classes of mobs, knows her pet, knows her traps. Vaerlin, I’m willing to bet that if you are doing all that CC, you are just as valuable to your Kara group as the BM who is in the corner blasting on his Khromium gun. It’s not just about MD Aimed onto tank, BW pet and attack, then arcane/auto/steady/auto/scorpid/auto repeat until the mob is down. Ooooh mob on a squishy! Who is closest? Me, well, sure I can pull that off. Allow me. (poof) Anyone for popsicles? (The best sound in the world is the sound of a freeze trap I’ve dropped going off.)
Personally, I will never play anything other than BM. I started another hunter with the idea that I should learn the other trees but I didn’t like the other trees so she went buhbai. But if you are a good MM or SV hunter and you know how to CC and dps, come on along. Does your pet like cheese? I got extra. We can talk shop. It’ll be fun. Have you been to the BRK hunter blog? Good. Good. Isn’t that LOS movie the best? You learned something, too. Yeah, it was boss…
Gimmlette and UrsaMajor