A Small Lesson in Avoiding Gluttony
“Dear BRK, what does it mean when you say roll for the trash/shard? Cgeorgemo”
Your 5-man party goes into an instance. You’ve got a warrior, holy pally, feral druid, rogue and you, the hunter.
The last boss drops a wand. Naturally.
What does your party do with it? You can, A) roll for the item itself, and the winner will sell it to a vendor, e.g. trash, or B) have an enchanter in the party Disenchant it into a shard, for which the party rolls.
Enchanting stinks. It costs loads of money to level, people rarely tip well for high-end enchants, (You’re just pressing a button!), and the amount of time and effort required to get the really good enchants is daunting. If you’re a hunter/enchanter, we feel for you.
If you’re smart, you’re not a hunter/enchanter.
And if you’re smart and not a hunter/enchanter, we’re going to give you the proper answer for a “Roll for Shard!” request:
Pass.
Who in your raid needs that shard more than you? The enchanter does, obviously. Shards are his trade-stock. Your tank does as he’s got a repair bill 5x yours, if not more. Your healer does as she’s the one person you need to keep happy so she’ll go to another instance with you instead of one of the 10,000 other hunters on your server.
When the loot stinks and the trash is being rolled for, make your non-enchanting-hunter roll a Pass. The tank/enchanter/healer karma you’ll acquire is more than worth the three gold you’re giving up.
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22 Responses to “A Small Lesson in Avoiding Gluttony”
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I rarely do this, but I have to disagree with you, BRK. For a few reasons:
1) Sure, enchanting sucks to level, but the reward is the ability to be able to walk into a city, spam a WTC macro, and make bank. And, yes, you’re making 1-5g for clicking a button, period. I’m LW and I can count the number of times I’ve been asked to craft something for someone on one hand.
2) I dunno about your server, but on mine, Large Prismatic Shards go for a heck of a lot more than 3g.
3) If the point is to try and earn some tank/healer karma, wouldn’t it be more effective to roll on said shard and then hand it directory over to them? I think you’ll get a lot more karmic mileage out of that.
Nothing more irritating then being a primary healer/tank (yes, I’m a paladin so I’ve done both) and watching as the mage/hunter/warlock prance around with their epic flying mount and fully enchanted gear to the max. Then there’s me on my standard (just recently got an epic flier) taking the beating and paying for it out of my own pocket or healing and not being able to effectively solo only to see other classes benefit from just being able to “sit back and DPS”.
I rolled the class and I willing accept the fact that I keep you alive by either tanking or keeping the tank up. A thank you, or in this case, a pass of a nice shard to help me enchant my gear to help you run bigger instances to help you get better gear goes along way.
Kudos to you BRK, well said.
I request an adendum to your general rule. For those that have enchanter alts, or mains, who will actually use the shard they can roll on any shards without guilt.
While I disagree with BRK on passing for the shard (although I do see his point - just something I wouldn’t do) I’m also gonna have to disagree with you Grolnen.
I don’t know what enchanters you’ve been talking to but I’m a 375 enchanter. I have EVERY SINGLE NON WORLD DROP recipe except the agi to boots from Crypts (almost at 300 runs and I’ve only seen it drop once…on my second run) and the stamina to boots from mana tombs. I have Cat’s Swiftess but none of the other boe Blue recipes. I Don’t have the Kara enchants yet either.
However, IF I can find someone that wants an enchant, I would 9/10 times I make zero money. Tips?? Pshh…I’m estatic when someone gives me a 2g tip.
I’ve probably dumped somewhere around 5000 gold easy into my enchanting. Wanna know how much of that I’ve made back in tips? if it was 100g since launch I’d be surprised. Sure if I sat in a town and hawked my wares for hours on end I may have made more money but who the hell wants that.
I roll for the shard and if I win, give it to the enchanter.
It essentially gives them a 2/5 shot at it. Beyond the good karma that comes from sharing the love, guess who never has any problems when they want that new hot enchant?
If you can’t make enough money on dailies and trash drops to realize the sale of a shard is just slightly above zero when it comes to economic impact, you are doing something horribly wrong.
Dunear and Clank
Farstriders
I agree and disagree. My usually method of etiquette is to roll once, and then if I win something, passing on subsequent rolls. Of course, I play a healer, and my boyfriend is an enchanter.
I roll for the shard. Yes, I can request the mats for an enchant from the guild bank but I’d rather provide them myself.
My main is an enchanter… and enchanting is a crap profession. The only way to make money ‘enchanting’ is to stay in one spot and spam trade for an hour or two a day. Not for me, tyvm… I’d rather be out and about, you know, doing stuff.
So the modest income I make from it comes from disenchanting. Most enchanters make their money this way. And its a courtesy to shard blue BOPs, and a way of making something useful out of something that no one wanted.
My advice is, if you are running with an enchanter, to have everyone split the shards at the end. You too will need large prismatics for various enchants (and you should always enchant your gear). If an item drops that you could actually use, its really cool to pass on a shard so that someone else, who didn’t win an item, can get a shard.
However don’t expect your enchanter to shard your greens for you. Chances are selling dust and essences is how they make a little cash–why expect them to shard your stuff so you can compete against them?
Loot Karma is huge.
Plate wearers take it in the poop chute literally, I have been giving 5g tips to the tank since level 40, thats how I roll. I do agree that rolling on the shard and then giving it doubles the chances of the good deed going your desired way. So I roll and /give.
On a totally unrelated note:
Is there a website somewhere that lists items needed to gain honor with the various factions? I have a list of things the darkmoon faire uses from an addon which helps. Just wondering, because when I am not playing @ work I am playing chess in my head of the next moves I need to be making.
Danke
Rabid
Ok, I may have been misinformed about the profitability of enchanting, LOL.
I’ve considered tipping enchanters when I win shards in an instance, would that be welcome or appreciated?
Oh any kind of tips for enchanting your gear are appreciated. I also don’t even care that I don’t get tips most of the time. If I’m selling someone an enchant and using my mats I will usually charge them 10-20% less than the AH would cost them. If they are providing the mats I usually don’t even ask for money for the rarer enchants.
My problem was that a lot of people (like yourself) seem to think that enchanting is a gold mine. Sure I make some extra cash from DE’ing the crap drops I get. That quest with only a Shaman Mail Armor item - well I can shard it and make an extra 20 or so gold. But its not like I walk into Shatt and i have people begging to pay me money to enchant their gear.
Another thing I find funny is people saying “Think of the tanks repair bill. WONT SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE REPAIR BILL!!!”
Sure I know that tanks wind up paying a pretty penny for their repair bills. But guess what…It isn’t like playing a hunter is cheap either. Sure we can avoid a wipe a lot of the time and save the repair bill for that screw-up. But with the way FD has been being resisted on boss fights you no longer save the amount you used to.
So sure…they def have a hunter beat on the costs for repairs.
==BUT==
I don’t remember ever seeing a tank using the Rep Reward Ammo. Its costing me over 20g for a night’s worth of ammo.
I don’t remember seeing a tank feeding his pet. With the way pets are losing happiness now I’m spending 5g a night on meat for my stupid ravager….damn picky eater.
So before repair bills even enter the equation I’ve spent a good 25g. I really don’t see how I should feel bad about the tanks repair bill. I know what they do and appreciate the hell outta them keeping that mob from chewin my mail wearin ass up, but I sure as hell don’t owe him anything.
@ Rabidpoultry - I’m a reputation whore. Im exalted with an embarassing amount of factions both old world and BC (woohooo for getting free naxx attunement and never stepping foot in the place). The BEST resource I found was wowwiki.com. I book-marked http://www.wowwiki.com/Faction and regardless of the faction I was a click away from seeing every quest, which were repeatable, what items could be turned in for rep, etc. A lot of the wiki pages also give you an over-view and/or strategy to hitting revered or exalted.
here’s the thing, though. You’ve put as much money INTO the run as everyone else, and you recoup that money through drops. A shard can and has been the difference between losing cash & profiting on a 5-man. We all gotta enchant our stuff, ‘chanters expect you to provide your own mats, and the AH is full of marked up shards at ridiculous, er, low low prices. I did the run, I’ll surely take a reward at the end.
The way WE do it, is someone gathers up all the drops (we’re all SSC-geared running for badges, it’s rare that someone actually NEEDS the loot that drops), burn it at the end, and distribute evenly. We generally roll for the privilege of NOT getting the void crystal, since they’re less valuable.
1) With the advent of guild banks, your main tank can repair on the company dime, and shards can be stored there as well, for general enchanter use. Thus reducing the opportunities for (visible) karma improvements.
2) If you are getting terrible tips for enchanting, I have a novel idea for you. It is called a ‘price’. Tell whoever wants an enchant that your price for it is 10g (or whatever), at the beginning. Don’t push that trade button until you get a reasonable price. If they complain that it is just for pushing a button, tell them to push the button themselves…
Thank You Kindly,
Corwyn
for Kafsha and Shaelee
I respond to JC tells in the trade channel, with “I can, 5g”. 9/10 times I get a “Where can we meet?” in response, the other time is a “lolnub, ur just clikin a buttun”. I can live with that.
With my enchanting, I keep enough mats for a couple Savagery enchants in my bank and can do “WTS Savagery Enchant MY mats, 160g” and sell everything I have in 10 minutes.
Corwyn is right, name a price and stick to it.
Not sure if I have made back what I spent to level both of those professions, but I’m not hurting for cash either.
Unless it’s been a wipefest. With arrows, pet food, me food, water, repairs… the hunter has the second largest expenditure for running an instance.
It really depends on gear levels, but hunter ‘reagents’ are the most expensive of the non-tanking classes. (Plate does get expensive once good gear is acquired and they do take a lot of durability damage)
Hunters are the only ones to have expenses go UP as they go deeper into the end game. But as I mentioned, tanks take alot of durability damage and their repairs are always the most expensive in the raid.
I’ve got tons of good and bad 5-mans stories with players sometimes acting in the most reprehensible way imaginable. (ex: need a blue drop you can’t use, agro everything you can in the instance, wipe the group then leave party/hearth out… works better if you can avoid the wipe, but people who act that way really don’t care about their own time)
Instance loot, how we do it in my guild…
if you need it, you get it, rolling if there are more than one person on “need”.
If no one wants it and we have the enchanter along, he/she automatically de’s it. He gets first pick if he wants the result. If he/she doesn’t, then the rest of the party rolls if they would like it. I have a low level enchanter to whom I send all my winnings. Eventually, that toon will need the stuff and I have materials for any enchants I’d like.
In my guild, it is customary to tip the person who makes you something. I paid the LW who made my Felstalker (BRK recommended) armor 20g for making the stuff even though I gathered the mats. This LW is chronically short of money and I can make that up with two daily quests.
I do alchemy. If a guild member provides the mats, I’ll make the pots free even though I might have to buy vials. At some point, I will need something from them, whether it’s an enchant or to fill that final slot for yet another Shadow Labs run. I figure it all works out. Most guild members feel the same way I do. We do tend to defer in de rolls to the enchanters but if they don’t want the item, we take it. If no one wants it, into the guild bank it goes.
We don’t “keep track” as it is with player “L” won this time so he shouldn’t roll. Generally, players pass if they win and we don’t make anything of it if they don’t want to pass. We boot players who ninja. So far, we got karma spread around. If someone needs some extra to level their profession, we try to help.
With pet food, leveling cooking and fishing has been a godsend. I don’t spend nearly the amount other hunters do. Of course, a bear will eat mostly anything. I stocked up at the Harvest Festival in September and am just finishing my last stack of fish. Ursa loves the mage breads and the new table they can create means less money for my outlay.
I do wish you could get a percentage of your ammo back as throwing weapons can be retrieved. But, getting exalted with other factions lowers the cost of bullets and the few times I use arrows.
I just figure these costs are part of the game. I know how to make back the money I have to spend.
Gimmlette and UrsaMajor in Death by Blizzkrieg
I always roll for shards. Hunters need enchants too.
Having said that, I always tip 20G for enchants using MY MATS, and include that in my “Looking for Enchant” post in the trade channel. Sometimes I get a response from an enchanter asking for more gold and (so far) have always met their counter-offer.
I don’t think passing on a roll will generate much Karma since most players won’t even realize it, and even fewer will remember.
Seabrat’s rule for preserving your sanity: “Tip the tank and avoid puglies whenever possible!”
I would not take this as be-all-end-all advice. A good starting point for thinking about etiquette in a pug, but when you’re amongst friends, it’s a different story. Loot can be discussed and agreed upon and everyone gets what they want.
We all need enchants at some point and just saying “Suck it up and buy the shards” is a little short-sighted and probably influenced by the economy of one server in particular. On mine, a large prismatic shard is going to go for about 15g.
And, if you’re a “tip the tank” type, well, you’re really only cheating yourself by giving him a shard and then giving him cash… a good tank could actually clean up in this kind of scenario! Not likely to happen, but possible… however improbable.
There is no “proper” answer to the “roll for shard” call. It’s just not that black and white. Discussing loot issues before you start a run will keep things running smoothly no matter what drops.
@rabid…
http://nihilum.wazap.com/en/reputation/
only covers outland factions, tho.
I’m a 375 enchanter with every rep enchant. I do not ever advertise in trade except if I have a nether and am in the mood to do sure-footed.
I do not keep materials in stock. I enchant for my guildies and friends. I have no interest in dealing with 12 year old twink alts who want two crusader enchants but who can’t tip.
Here’s my advice to someone wanting a rare enchant. Find out the materials and buy them at the AH. then go into trade and say you are looking for XX, you have the mats and tip. I promise you you will get tells from enchanters. Most of us are tired of people who do no research and who want us to spam all of the “glowy” enchants at them. So when you get that uber drop and you want a great enchant, just buy the mats, and offer a tip, and you’ll find someone even at odd hours.
As far as the shard thing goes: I’m a leather wearing tank, but with all epics my repairs are steep. However, I shard as we go, and have people roll at the end. I’ve lost rolls and won them, but that’s the fairest way I think to handle them.
Enchanting is a hugely profitable profession.
Just dont be a tard and level it to 375 for no reason.
You can disenchant any item in the game with 275 enchanting, and you can get there for less than 1k gold.
And the rewards for doing so are great. You double the value of any green that drops to any of your characters forever.
Merely completing all your level 70 quests will net you well over 1000 gold worth of enchanting mats.
Large prismatic shards sell for 15 gold on my server, that is significant bank.
My husband is an enchanter, and he always tells me to roll on the shards, just in case he needs to enchant something for me.
Doesn’t hurt that I have a druid enchanter also, who is getting up there.