Lrn2Rite and Bad Wishes Won’t Come True
“Dear BRK, the WoW hunter board is discussing how to fix the mana usage problems that many hunters (especially MM/SV) have. Do you as a BM hunter have any mana problems and how do you deal with them? Sedenya and Yinkiz”
First off, notice these things about this email:
- Short and to the point.
- Good capitialization, punctuation, lack of l33tspeak, etc. It’s not a legal document; your use of parenthesis, brackets, and bracers aren’t at issue. but if u rite 2 us lik this dont axpect a response, kk?
- It’s not one the same questions we get everyday, (the addon is RatingBuster!)
Granted, it’s hard to avoid #3 if you don’t know what questions we get every day, but #1 and #2 should be something you should strive for in almost all your communications, especially when you’re attempting to elicit a worthwhile response.
And that’s a lesson from your Uncle BRK.
Now then, about this rubbish concerning MM/SV mana issues…
What does a Mage do? Stand at range and DPS.
What does a Shadow Priest do? Stand at range and DPS.
What does a Boomkin do? Stand at range and DPS..
What does an Elemental Shaman do? Stand at range and DPS.
What does a Warlock do? Stand at range and DPS, (and play with their minion, or kick dirt on it, whatever.)
What does a Marksman Hunter do? Stand at range and DPS AND use his pet in melee combat.
Hmm.
We’ll say it again. Hmm.
Hunters, regardless of talent spec, have an flexibility in their attacking style that the other classes just can’t match. Can those others do more damage or more DPS? Sure. But do they have a two-pronged attack capability? Not really, no.
(Tell ya something, we have never understood why any hunter would complain about how powerful warlocks or any other caster classes are. Hunters should destroy these people by the truckload. Go ask Renoobed/Mabd or Shifttusk how they feel about going one-on-one with a squishy. We think they’ll back us up on this.)
So what does Blizz do with the Hunter talent trees?
They make one of them mana-inefficient but blazingly burst-deadly at range.
They make one of them more dependent upon their melee-attacking pet and thus more difficult to fight if the enemy ignores one of the two-pronged assaults.
They make one of them less deadly from range, but if played properly, a ridiculously difficult target to kill.
There are positives and negatives in every class and talent spec:
With MM, the positive is that this is most massive burst-damage capable spec, bar none, end of story. The negative is that this massive burst-damage is massively mana-inefficient.
With SV, the positive is that, played properly - we feel we have to say this over and over because SV-playstyle is greatly different than MM/BM - can be one of the most elusive and tricky targets anybody has ever tried to kill. The negative is that the ranged and pet-melee DPS suffers without a lot of people to pick up a buff from Expose Weakness and it’s harder to get the gear necessary to make the spec shine.
With BM, the positive is that we can produce massive quantities of sustained, ranged DPS and bring a terrifyingly destructive pet into battle, simultaneously. The negative is that our burst-damage is heavily constricted and keeping one’s pet alive become much more critical than the other specs.
How mana-efficient are we as a BM hunter? Let’s take the Bear-Boss in Zul’Aman as an example of our mana-efficiency. Our guild can take him down in approximately 5-7 minutes. We haven’t timed it exactly, but we can complete the 20-minute timer pretty easily, so 5-7 minute estimate should be satisfactory.
We go full-out on this boss. We power through Rapid Fire and trinkets and drums and Beastial Wrath and keep a solid Auto/Steady/KC sequence going, and we break 900DPS consistently. With Aspect of the Hawk active, without totems or a shadow priest, we need to pop three Fel Mana potions throughout the course of the fight to keep our mana above zero at the time the boss dies.
But if you give us a totem or a shadow priest, we can leave the Fel Manas in the bank; we won’t need them.
What does a MM hunter have to do in terms of mana-regeneration in order to achieve similar results? Well, we have no direct experience with this spec in this fight, but we can assume that their mana-consumption is going to be tremendous if they want to try to keep up that degree of DPS.
But does that mean that the MM/SV specs are broken because of their mana-inefficiency?
We don’t think so. That’s the cost of doing business, the price one must pay to go down those trees. If you want to be a MM hunter, you’re going to be mana-inefficient, period, end of story. If you want to be a ranged DPS class and not have mana-issues, perhaps you should put away your pet and roll an Elemental Shammy.
It’s like complaining that your motorcycle doesn’t seat four comfortably. Or your 3/4-ton pickup truck doesn’t get 100mpg. Or that if you eat 1000 cookies a day, you’re going to gain weight.
Follks, learning to work with and around your spec’s limitations is what makes playing this game so hard and so rewarding.
“Dear Blizzard-Claus, this Christmas, please make my class and spec not have any negatives or drawbacks. Thanks, Hunterboy and Petmeister”
Can you guess what B-C is going to do with this letter?
/crumple
/roundfile


Sonvar on 06 Dec 2007 at 9:14 pm #
Amen. I don’t any of the hunter specs truly are greatly mana efficient but as hunters we have the advantage that if we have ammo we’re still doing dps from a range even with 0 mana an entire fight. The changes to Aspect of the Viper help it a bit but even with that some sort of pot is necessary. My only hunter wish is pet feeding mid combat if the pet isn’t directly attacking or being attacked.
As a side note I finally broke down and tamed a frostsaber specifically shy-rotam which is more bluish color than the other frostsabers in the area. My only issue is that its getting a bit annoying that his growl and intimidation keep getting resisted though I’m hoping that’ll improve with more levels since he’s only lvl 60.
Also, hopefully my punctuation is up to par.
Shifttusk on 06 Dec 2007 at 9:34 pm #
Ahhhmennn BRK
With regards to clothies in pvp. Your arses are collectivly mine. SL lock being the most rugged clothy gives up all his clothy pew to be hard to kill. Me healer you healer eventualy you’re gonna die.
All of the official QQ about mana is hogwash to me. I raided 100% with AOTH up. When I do raid now as marks (rare) I still do. Guess what I don’t go autouselessoom either. Pveing on long bossfights and going OOM? Theres an answer its called 8ap 2mp5 gems, its called consumables and silly trinkets like the pvp trinket from helfire tokens. Its a 15% chance on ranged hit to proc basicaly a free steady shot. If you’re going oom, this is better for your dps than your fancy AP trinket.
I generaly find the people QQing about hunter mana problems are not the hunters topping DPS meters they’re the ones still using aimedshot and peaking out at 500dps. Case in point? Our BRK, we hastle him about his steady shot but BRK is topping the meter, and he’s not crying about mana.
Shifttusk on 06 Dec 2007 at 9:38 pm #
Oh side note, if you really don’t want to worry about mana?
Get pvp gear level crit and spec survival (5/20/36) with thrill of the hunt. In pvp plus a few pve pieces I was at around 650 agility, 40% crit and 1800ap as survival. I literaly saw TOTH every other shot.
pelides on 06 Dec 2007 at 9:55 pm #
Hunters have mana problems? This is news to me!
Stale on 06 Dec 2007 at 10:25 pm #
Rofl…. Next they will say that Pallies go OOM too quick.
As a priest, I really liked 2.3 as we got the buff to mana regen. Now a days, I can do the bear boss with constant casts on 3 pots and 2 shad fiends. I finished on 600 mana
(Was with 2 trees so I was the main heals :S)
insufficiently on 06 Dec 2007 at 10:25 pm #
ToTH removes mana problems like a detergent on a tv commercial removes stains. I need to sit down someday and figure out if having it is worth losing points in MT for but MT is a chance of a percentage of a chance and trying to theorycraft it out makes my head hurt.
Shifttusk is right though. If you’re running out of mana, look at what other mana-using classes do. You are not a special hunter snowflake, you do the same things. Carry mana pots — we can get away with using Fel Mana because the debuff does not affect us. HAX — use mana oil before a boss fight, down your first potion early enough that the cooldown is up before the fight is over in case you have to throw back a second one. And sit down and drink if you have to in between the pulls. Or go to BM and you don’t have to worry about mana — you’ll have other things you need to concentrate on, but your pretty blue bar won’t one of them.
Fiordhraoi on 06 Dec 2007 at 11:12 pm #
*insert righteous indignation*
What do you do as a Boomkin? Stand at range and DPS, AND keep an eye on the entire raid’s health to see if spot healing has become necessary AND make sure that the other casters running around doesn’t put them out of your buff range AND keep an eye on the healers’ mana pools so that you can innervate them at an appropriate moment.
Oh, wait, AND put your focus target on the trapped mob in case the trap gets resisted AGAIN and you need to cyclone it to buy the hunter a few extra seconds.
BRK on 06 Dec 2007 at 11:29 pm #
/cast [target = Fio] Tranquilizing Shot
There, there, boss. We know that Boomkins et all bring loads of uber goodness to all. Just making a hunter-point.
Um… don’t change the ZA raiding chart, OK?
Justin on 07 Dec 2007 at 12:21 am #
MM hunter and I only ever need to use a mana pot on a raid boss, otherwise I keep Aspect of the Viper up and still maintain 600-700consistent dps in low Kara gear. A couple good crits and my dps hits 900. Though I won’t complain if Blizz gives us a bigger mana pool
WyldKard on 07 Dec 2007 at 12:55 am #
@BRK
As Fio said, you’re oversimplifying the other class roles here, especially the Druid and Shammy.
“If you want to be a ranged DPS class and not have mana-issues, perhaps you should put away your pet and roll an Elemental Shammy.”
You’re kidding, right? Elemental Shammies have absolutely horrible mana efficiency that people have been complaining about since, well, forever.
Doomilias on 07 Dec 2007 at 1:42 am #
@somewierdspellingofwildcard :)jk
our resident elemental shammy has 0 mana problems, and if you watch brk posts of wws reports, is in the top 4 dps on every boss fight. especially since the patch. his words exactly “l2usewatershield”
Anonymous on 07 Dec 2007 at 2:10 pm #
Does MM still have any mana problems with JoW up on the boss? (and it really should be up in a 25man raid, either from a Tanking pally or a ret pally.)
Anonymous on 07 Dec 2007 at 2:12 pm #
^^ you fail
Erastus on 07 Dec 2007 at 2:15 pm #
I know this isn’t anything about mana and hunters and who’s better, but…. You seem a little stressed out with your #3 email question. So, I think its time to add a subtitle to your site.
“BigRedKitty - The addon is Rating Buster”
Shifttusk on 07 Dec 2007 at 3:33 pm #
“Does MM still have any mana problems with JoW up on the boss? (and it really should be up in a 25man raid, either from a Tanking pally or a ret pally.)”
I just did this past week a kara and gruuls as my pvp marks spec. Kara had a pally tank so JOW and there was a gasp ret pally who did the same on gruuls. With the OFSR time on grull and JOW I didn’t even need to pot with oil/mageblood. I potted once on prince in kara because I insisted on might+kings instead of might+wisdom.
“^^ you fail”
Get out, pally tanks do very well now and make HUGE threat. And having a ret or healing pally put judgements up on bosses is part of their job its a huge help (light and wisdom)
Anonymous on 07 Dec 2007 at 6:46 pm #
Well:
1.-
can produce “massive” quantities of sustained ranged DPS
BM do lot of sustained but not massive, thats the MM job.
2.-
How mana-efficient are we as a BM hunter?
No talents others than The Beast Within when Bestial Wrath in a 2 minutes cooldown who last only 18 seconds improves mana eficience in the BeastMaster tree, so don’t fool people sayin that BM improves yer mana, Marksmanship tree does, their Shot cost less, their Sings hit harder just to mention a few.
3.-
What does a MM hunter have to do in terms of mana-regeneration in order to achieve similar results?
They do the same as a SV and a BM(nothing other than use Mana Oils), or BM have mana regen talents?.
As a side note BRK u are a great master, avoid that kind of errors.
I like more a BM with Ferocious Inspiration than the Trueshot Aura.
WyldKard on 08 Dec 2007 at 12:42 am #
@Doomilias
I have no doubt that Water Shield has greatly increased the mana efficiency of Elemental Shamans, especially if they are receiving further mana throwback from Shadow Priests, Restoration Shammies, etc. However, their mana efficiency is still not great for sustained DPS, particularly since their last Elemental talent tree “nerf”.
At 70, in a raid environment, with pots, well geared Shammies do better these days than they ever have, but I still wouldn’t place them on the pedestal for mana efficiency that the OP did. In fact, I’d say most other offensive caster specs do better in this area than Elemental Shammies.
@Anonymous
Perhaps BRK is better off leaving “ranged” out of his statement, since his pet’s damage is not ranged at all (ignoring that it’s still ranged from the Hunter’s perspective). Nonetheless, a BM Hunter will still have more massive DPS than a Marks Hunter. Your response is only accurate when ignoring the pet’s DPS.
BM may not improve the mana consumption of a Hunter’s shot attacks, but his pet’s damage is not mana dependent at all, and since BM talents buff this damage, it is false to say that nothing other than Beast Within buffs mana efficiency in the BM tree.
DOOA on 09 Dec 2007 at 12:45 pm #
I am a bit surprised BRK accepts this heavy hunter nerf so easily. Assuming a ten minute fight and two FD/drink we are looking at best case scenario of
2x 7200 (Conjured Manna Biscuit)/10 minutes
14400/600 seconds
divide by 120 to get mp/5
120/mp5?
60/mp5 on shorter fights?
My real numbers are more like 30/mp5 as I don’t drink to full.
If you were not running out of mana, kudos to you, kinda.
Your dps would have been higher with a less mana efficient rotation even though you were out of the fight 10% of the time. Timing when to FD/drink was crucial on certain big bosses and the key to maximum burst damage. We have lost a Hunter only perk and moved a step towards easy mode. I regret the loss.
Blorg on 10 Dec 2007 at 8:21 am #
If you have mana trouble as a hunter, gear for mana regen and a larger mana pool. If you’re having mana trouble on longer fights, look at your gear and build a ‘long fights’ set which favours mana regen over big headline numbers like RAP. The hellfire pvp trinket is easy to get and handy to have, for instance.
Also, carry a dehydrated shadow priest with you at all times, and just add water before boss fights.
DOOA on 10 Dec 2007 at 12:11 pm #
Blorg, are you really suggesting I change out my Tsunami
http://thottbot.com/i30627
or my hourglass
http://thottbot.com/i28034
Then build a long fight set which I have never needed before and roll against priests, mages, warlocks for mana giving trinkets and rings?
and not tell Blizz I got nerfed?