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BM Talent Spec Collage

BRK » 19 December 2007 » In Spec »

Here is the standard twenty-point marksman configuration we recommend for all BM hunters. If you’ve got a hunter in your raid who has Improved Hunter’s Mark, Efficiency can be used instead, but be sure to let him do the marking.

marksman.png

But what are some of the variations in BM hunter specs? We can talk about those, sure thing.

Well, let’s start with the pre-Kara, level 70 hunter.

You’re running 5-man instances getting your Beastlord gear, working your way towards revered with Cenarion Expedition and your Glyph of Ferocity. Here’s our recommended talent spec.

prekara.png

We don’t think Improved Aspect of the Hawk is as critical as maxing your pet’s ability to off-tank, so we’ll go max health and armor with Endurance Training and Thick Hide. Generally, in both normal and heroic-mode, 5-man instances have harder trash mobs than bosses. Using your pet to save your healer, or off-tank that one un-crowd-controllable mob, is more important than the bonus DPS from IAotH.

Why only 4/5 in Frenzy? Because with Serpent’s Swiftness, your pet will be attacking so quickly that even if only 80% of your pet’s crits result in a Frenzy proc, Frenzy will be up all the time.

Must you have Animal Handler? The pet +Hit isn’t critical in normal 5-man instances, but the bosses in heroics are considered level 72; the pet +Hit from Animal Handler will be quite helpful against these mobs. And the increased mount speed is handy for completing those level 70 quests you haven’t yet finished.

Poof! You’re invited to Kara and the rules change. Now the bosses are the big challenge, not the 5 or 6 or 7-mob pulls in the 5-man instances. Your pet is not going to be off-tanking and the boss fights are going to be much longer than you’ve seen before. You’ll need some modified talents to maximize your damage potential now.

Here’s our recommendation for a Karazhan-raiding BM hunter, Attumen through Prince.

introtokara.png

We’ve added IAotH for those long boss fights. You’ll proc that frequently and it’ll make a very nice addition to your DPS.

You’ll have to learn how to manage your mana so you don’t have to switch to Aspect of the Viper, though. Learning this skill is critical and we cannot emphasize that enough. Running Aspect of the Viper all the time hurts your Ranged Attack Power and eliminates your ability to use IAotH.

Notice that we’ve lost the two points in Bestial Discipline. Once a BM hunter’s crit rate hits 20%, his Go For The Throat talent should be providing enough Focus that BD isn’t necessary. Your pet cannot store excess Focus; there’s no point in over-generating it.

Once you’ve cleared through Prince, you might go for Nightbane and Netherspite, and you’ll definitely want to think about getting into your first 25-man instance, Gruul’s Lair.

Once you go to these bosses, pet-survivability is going to go down and there’s little you can do about it. But you can adjust your talent points to get your pet and his Ferocious Inspiration buff back into the fight quickly.

endofkara.png

Improved Revive Pet is highly recommended for the 25-man raiding hunter. Yes your pet will come back with a loss of Happiness if he’s rez’d, but he needs to get back in the battle, start fighting, and provide his 3% bonus damage buff. IRP will also reduce the rez-time from ten to four seconds, bring the pet back with 30% more health, and reduce the rez mana-cost by 40%. All of these are critical for the BM hunter to continue to deliver massive quantities of sustained, ranged DPS.

If you ever do Gruul’s Lair, your pet dies and you don’t rez him because it’ll take too long, and your raid wipes with a boss at 4%, you’ll wish you had had IRP. Believe us now and listen to us later!

Do you need IRP before Prince? Not really. If you want to train it for Shade of Aran we won’t get upset, but with proper pet-control Aran probably won’t nuke your pet.

Is there ever a time to train Spirit Bond? Now that we have a Heal Over Time spell, we say No, not even when grinding.

Is there ever a time for Bestial Swiftness? For leveling, you bet. If you’re running lots of Zul’Aman, go for it and snag a point from Endurance Training. Yes, Zul’Aman is an “outdoor” instance and Bestial Swiftness allows your pet to run 30% faster in there.

Is there ever a time for Catlike Reflexes? Unfortunately, taking that talent requires too great a sacrifice for hunters who wish to do anything that isn’t solo. Giving up Ferocious Inspiration just cannot be justified.

Spec | December 19, 2007

Comments

37 Responses to “BM Talent Spec Collage”

  1. Someone on December 19th, 2007 1:28 pm

    Typo: 73 not 72.

  2. BRK on December 19th, 2007 1:39 pm

    Fixed, ty. :)

  3. khatia(n) on December 19th, 2007 1:39 pm

    I do believe that Heroic bosses are 72, kara and beyond bosses are 73.

  4. khatia(n) on December 19th, 2007 1:43 pm

    Yep a quick wowhead search shows that heroic bosses are lvl 72 (and thus can’t crush lvl 70 tanks). I was 99.999% sure but wanted to repost to confirm. You shouldn’t doubt yourself so quickly BRK, but we’ll blame it on your illness.

  5. Renkyu on December 19th, 2007 1:46 pm

    I need some info on ImpHM…

    I have it, the MM hunter I roll with frequently does not. She rarely marks but there are occasions. By all appearances ImpHM doesn’t replace a regular HM as I do not get the visual or timer under my enemy when I cast my version on a target with another mark already on it. I guess it doesn’t count as a “more powerful spell” for the purposes of replacement since it is the same rank. Am I right in this assessment?

  6. BRK on December 19th, 2007 1:49 pm

    While Hunter’s Marks do not stack, a level 3 Hunter’s Mark will be “replaced” by a Level 4 Hunter’s Mark and a level 4 Hunter’s Mark will be “replaced” by a Level 4 Hunter’s Mark cast by a hunter with IHM.

    However, why waste the mana? Establish a marking-hunter and let them do that job.

  7. Tularis on December 19th, 2007 1:56 pm

    I’m running a similar spec for Gruul-level raiding but never understood the need for the 2 points in Rapid Killing. Of course, I’m running with the Abacus of Violent odds, so my speed boost cool-down is only 2 minutes anyway. In the longer boss battles, I can pop Abacus, then pop Rapid Fire, and then Abacus again in relatively short order. IAotH procs most of the time to keep the pew-pew fast between cooldowns. There’s almost never a time when I’d need to run Rapid Fire a second time, even with a shortened cooldown.

    With Abacus, the 2 points from Rapid Killing would probably be better spent in Efficiency. You can spam Steady Shots to your heart’s content without worry about going out of mana and you can have your 5/5 Improved Hunter’s Mark still.

    Understanding that not everyone runs with the Abacus, perhaps we can talk about favourite trinket combos for hunters and how/if they affect your talent spec’ing?

    Running as a BM Hunter with Bloodlust Brooch and Abacus of Violent Odds, I’m pretty much at the top of my guild’s DPS meters.

  8. pelides on December 19th, 2007 2:01 pm

    I am posting a link to this on my hunter forum immediately. This is one of the best articles you’ve published in recent memory. A must read for anyone experimenting with the BM spec for the first time.

  9. Scylloga on December 19th, 2007 2:12 pm

    Ok Im confused I though HM’s stacked? I have seen more than one icon before. Or did they nerf that?

  10. BRK on December 19th, 2007 2:18 pm

    If you see two marks, that’s a bug. We’ve seen it too, it’s rare, but not intended. We are unaware of any conditions required to get two marks to appear, it just happens.

  11. Cynddl on December 19th, 2007 2:30 pm

    BRK, my only comment is on not having BD.

    I did that. I did away with BD.

    In my experience, it was a mistake. You see, how many people, once they reach that progression point, are ONLY doing Netherspite/Nightbane/Gruul? They never quest again…never solo again…never farm again…never run 5-mans again…etc.

    Even with only growl on, pets will burn through focus faster than they can regenerate it. To hold aggro against a mob, your pet must use growl. To use growl, a pet needs focus. To build them focus, you must not only attack the mob, you must crit the mob. Critting the mob so that your pets generate focus will pull the mob off in 2-3 shots if not less. Even just sitting there autoshotting, you still crit which still generates loads of threat, more than the growl will from the focus gained. It’s a catch-22.

    The only way I’ve found to counter this is to just let my pet attack for several seconds. That, however, is beyond annoying. The key to farming/grinding is having as little downtime as possible.

    So, my advice…keep Bestial Discipline. 2% hp isn’t that much, and your Netherwing dailies will go so much faster…

  12. mwahahah on December 19th, 2007 2:30 pm

    ever seen 2 marks in pvp….
    that priest must’ve said: “what the?….”

    [mute]

    ^^
    great post!

  13. Alnitaq on December 19th, 2007 2:35 pm

    Nice write-up, BRK–very handy. I’d be interested in hearing what you had to say about the viability of a Survivalist off-spec for 5 mans/heroics, instead of MM. I was BM/mm for leveling, but once at 70 I began instancing (yeah, I soloed my way up) and found that so much of my role as a hunter was based on traps that I figured it would be worth it to re-spec. Since doing so, I’ve had no end of compliments about my trapping–one memorable Shadow Labs run (the one in which the Sonic Spear finally dropped for me) the pally tank even whispered me halfway through the fight to let me know that from now on he was going to be going for the sheep target before the trapped one.

    In short, while I think that going Survivalist has probably gimped my dps a bit, I would say that the added utility I get from traps has probably increased group survivability enough to make up for it. Any thoughts?

    Oh, and Tularis (or any others who care to input): As regards the Abacus–does it not speed up your autoshots to the point that you can’t fit in a Steady Shot without clipping your autos? I haven’t done the math on this yet, and I’d be curious to hear about that.

    Alnitaq of Akama

  14. Greenarrowx on December 19th, 2007 2:37 pm

    I am a 46/15/0 BM build. I love this build and have been using for awhile now. Catlike Reflexes is a little too juicy to ignore while soloing or having your pet off-tank. And I really never wanna give up Improved Revive Pet, since it gets your pet back in the fight quicker and healthier, and less mana intensive.

    I gave up the 5/5 in Mortal Shots, so I could keep IRP and Catlike Reflexes. I hate respeccing; mainly cause I’ve done it so much it’s pretty expensive now.

    How much has not having Mortal Shots gimped my dps? Enough to really matter? As opposed to my pet being alive longer (Catlike Reflexes = 9% dodge) and coming back into the fight quicker (IRP).

  15. Greenarrowx on December 19th, 2007 2:38 pm

    Greenarrowx & Panthro, US-Perenolde

    Sorry, left out my signature.

  16. Hoder on December 19th, 2007 2:39 pm

    Great post! I tried respeccing to BM for about 30 mins and just couldn’t get the hang of it myself. I will have to give it another shot when I have a day or so with no arena battles or KZ running that depends on me knowing how to play my class. I’m a typical MM/SV hunter at 0-41-20 and have been my entire levelling life. Anyway, i know you’re not feeling well and i thought some good hunter news might cheer you up a bit. after spending not a few weeks in KZ without obtaining a drop (other than our T4 gloves), last night on Opera we got Wolfie, and we got our wolfslayer sniper rifle and our Beastmaw pauldrons. Now, we will keep our BL shoulders for double trapping, but curse it all if we didn’t go to bed a satisfied hunter. Heck, I didn’t even want the gun (with my spec Sunfury gives me about 7 more DPS), but I refused to see something so beautiful sharded. That still leaves 7 drops or so that I need from KZ, but compared to my Valanos’ my dPS jumped a ton! Dr. Boom died getting my skill to 348 (went to bed and he was dead so no waiting to get 2 more points) and I am headed to Thrallmar to grab my 24 slot ammo pouch. Sending some good karma your way BRK, feel better and keep that flu bug up north in Orlando.
    -Hoder
    Bladefist US

  17. sonvar on December 19th, 2007 2:57 pm

    Could you go into further detail about how you deal with switching between AoTH and AoTV as I really have not an instance where I can just use AoTH and not have to drink after every battle.

  18. Katho on December 19th, 2007 3:03 pm

    I think one thing you are missing with Bestial Discipline is pets with Gore. They will burn through whatever Focus you can give them as fast as you can give it to them. So I think for people that Raid with a Gore specced pet, Bestial Discipline is great. I’d take the 2 points from Endurance Training personally.

  19. Niles on December 19th, 2007 3:08 pm

    I moved around some points in BM to match this spec last night, and even in 5 mans with a little bit of pet micromanagement, it owns.

    Thanks for the insight.

  20. pelides on December 19th, 2007 3:09 pm

    @Sonvar
    Get yourself some mana oils and major mageblood pots. If your shot rotation is efficient, those mana buffs and a couple of well timed Fel Mana Potions will keep your mana up for an entire Gruul fight without needing to go to Viper. If a fight is going long, I’ll pop into viper, pop my rapid fire, hope for a Skyfire proc and autoshot until I get a reasonable amount of mana back and hop back into Hawk. Hopefully by the time that’s all through, I can pop another Fel Mana Potion and get back to layin the smack down.

  21. Felandra on December 19th, 2007 4:45 pm

    Cynddl…

    Growl is 15 Focus every 5 seconds (it simply can’t be used faster). Your pet generates (without BD) around 40 Focus every 4 seconds. If your pet can’t punch out Growl with nothing else draining Focus, then something is very much wrong.
    And while Claw/Bite does add some threat, they are not vital to that, they are there for damage. What you suffer is what most high level hunters suffer, the lack of punch in Growl. Your shots have simply become overpowered in comparison.

    Try getting a pally to buff your pet up with Might before you grind/quest, and you will never be able to grab aggro. That AP scaling for Growl is downright sick, but your pet has to cross, 768 AP I think, well somehing near that.

    Btw, Katho, Gore = Claw in focus use.

    I agree the high end Raid build is NOT good for questing and grinding. However, in raids you do not gain from BD very much (unless it is a very mobile fight), but both you and your pet gains something from ET, and remember it stacks with buffs.
    What I suggest is getting a pet that can Screech, or a Boar for Charge. Leave the Raiding pet at the stable and use the Grinding pet for that. Those two skills (Screech and Charge) are awesome. Charge adds a huge amount of AP to the next attack (550 I think) and the next attack is Growl, plus I think Charge does some threat by itself, meanwhile Screech is only 20 Focus and seems to do more threat due to it’s debuff (and it is AoE, making multi-grinding very easy).

  22. Honorshammer on December 19th, 2007 5:13 pm

    Felandra twisted the bits to say : “I agree the high end Raid build is NOT good for questing and grinding.”

    Welcome to the same issue most of the “lesser classes” face.

  23. Pike on December 19th, 2007 5:35 pm

    As a level 69 hunter looking towards various aspects of endgame (and also often re-evaluating her spec), this post was just what I needed! Thanks BRK :)

  24. Corwyn on December 19th, 2007 5:56 pm

    Dear BRK,

    I use something pretty close to what you call the Karazhan-raiding spec. But for a different reason. I run on a very slow machine, and being able to have a fast bow (1.8) with quick shots, and rapid fire is a huge help. With both, I do more damage than a steady-auto rotation, and use very little mana (but tons of arrows, of course).

    I learned the particulars of various talents here, but more importantly I learned that you should tailor your spec to your particular play style and needs. Slavishly following a standard spec (especially one you don’t understand) is a way to mediocrity. Thanks for reinforcing that lesson again.

    Thank You Kindly,

    Corwyn
    for Kafsha and Shaelee

  25. Jesse on December 19th, 2007 6:03 pm

    One thing I think that no one has mentioned is that regardless of your spec, hunters are both solo-able, 5-man-able and raid-able and at least somewhat PvP-able.

    I think its crazy that almost every other class has three different specs for the three different environments: solo, raid, and pvp.

    Really wish Blizz would make a pot or something that gave you a 12 hour respec buff and that only cost like 5g. Then my warrior friends could come do arena and then go back to tanking like pros without having to spend 50g a week.

  26. Joel’s Scattered Thoughts » Blog Archive » BigRedKitty » BM Talent Spec Collage on December 19th, 2007 8:27 pm

    [...] has a BM Talent Spec Collage up on his site. As always with his work, it looks good and I would recommend it to any hunters that [...]

  27. Garumoo on December 19th, 2007 10:19 pm

    I’ve got Spirit Bond, but only because I’m fond of popping Demonic Runes .. the HoT I get completely heals the damage I take for the mana boost.

    Still evaluating this strategem though - darn healbots keep topping me up, even though I’m well behaved with regard to threat and all.

  28. Kronik on December 19th, 2007 11:37 pm

    Best BM spec evah:

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bloodscalp&n=Kroniko

    I mostly PvP, but I always top damage in BG’s and instance PUG’s. A couple of MM hunters i’ve encountered were able to out burst-dps me but they are far and in between, and i do more dmg than them in the long run, just not in 1 v 1 encounters. IAotH is pointless imo. With Serpent’s Swiftness / haste trinket / Rapid Fire etc. attack speed can get a bit out of hand for a steady shot rotation. Other than that i’d say the other talents contribute to making this spec have the most damage output potential (read: OP) of pretty much anything else out there at the moment.

    Thanks to BRK for showing me the light! My spec is probably exactly the same as his but I’m not quite sure. Point is this spec is not only extremely raid and pve viable, but played correctly will obliterate in pvp as well.

  29. Xizang on December 20th, 2007 2:11 am

    Well BRK, I remember times when you stamped IRP the “I cannot keep my pet alive” talent…
    I am NOT a Beastmaster but SV, and I do raid 25ers regularly. With a little bit of attention, even my pet does not need to die there, especially not in bossfights, where your FI should matter most.

  30. mwahahah on December 20th, 2007 4:04 am

    Just wonderin’
    is this going to pop up in your sidebar someday:) ?

    would be nice to have a quick referral to this (for all the non-believing mm’s that i’ve convinced to visit your blog ;)

    =D

  31. TranquilRage on December 20th, 2007 4:08 am

    I have both GftT and BD and I still have my pets running out of focus. For grinding I have an owl who spams Growl and Screech and just about manages to hold agro off me (Kara geared hunter in terms of equipment). In instances I have a ravager who spams Gore and Bite. And it uses all the focus I can generate. BD also has the added advantage of zero downtime between mobs when grinding, because it has plenty of focus to start the next mob with.

  32. Gebeorgan on December 20th, 2007 4:57 am

    Thank you for a very useful and well-written post on your BM spec. I’m level 19 atm with an eye on a BM/MM spec such as this. My next objective though is Arathi Basin at level 29 and anticipate on keeping the foundational BM talents (Endurance Training, Thick Hide and Focused Fire) in place and building up my Marksmanship talents for the next 10 levels. Knowing this, would you recommend 5 points in Improved Concussive Shot over Improved Hunter’s Mark? The ability to stun in PvP sounds more useful, especially when you want to stop the enemy flag carrier in Warsong? Whilst not losing sleep over it I wonder if a BM/MM hybrid is too much of a compromise for low-level PvP. Respeccing costs for PvE doesn’t bother me, I’m a twink after all.

    Regards, G.

  33. renkyu on December 20th, 2007 1:48 pm

    “a level 4 Hunter’s Mark will be “replaced” by a Level 4 Hunter’s Mark cast by a hunter with IHM.”
    That’s the answer I was looking for, thank you. It was just too hard to tell based on the interface if it was actually replacing the regular mark. I hate that it appears to not replace it.

    “However, why waste the mana? Establish a marking-hunter and let them do that job.”
    because you may, frequently, have to deal with situations without being able to focus fire completely. In raiding when you can’t CC everything we like to place multiple marks for multi-shotting and volley (or when one of us needs to switch targets for a little ranged CC). When the main target (mine) goes down, I am still able to recast mark on the one she had and benefit the group more.
    In PvP she will find a rogue or druid before it stealths and catch him, but being able to replace her mark works better for my pet if I end up joining her in that battle once I am in range. These are the majority of the types of situations we run across.

    Basically unless I have under 5% mana, HM is NEVER a waste of mana to me. It just has too many good uses. =D

  34. Lady-Jess on December 20th, 2007 3:14 pm

    I’m kinda jumping ahead on my spec from what my guild will ever do. I’m using a slightly varied version of your last screenshot. We do 5 mans, heroics, and we’re still on the first 2 or 3 kara bosses. And…I’m still leveling, but not for much longer. But I do love my damage output. So I am assuming, I’d want to switch to Screenshot #2 for the Kara hunter, which should be just dandy for heroics as well? My armory for reference.

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Khaz%27goroth&n=Teranna

    -Teranna
    Khaz’Goroth

  35. Sneaky Git on December 20th, 2007 3:22 pm

    “If you see two marks, that’s a bug. We’ve seen it too, it’s rare, but not intended. We are unaware of any conditions required to get two marks to appear, it just happens.”

    This is not true. People have tested this with arcane shot and if you see both marks your getting double the bonus. In the past you could cause both marks to stack by marking the mob shooting it a few times to advance the mark and then marking again. I think they may have fixed this.

  36. Sneaky Git on December 20th, 2007 3:24 pm

    Poor choice of quote… by not true… I was to say not true that you don’t get double the bonus. My kingdom for an edit button.

  37. Boulder on January 10th, 2008 4:11 am

    Howabout a spec for SSC?? =)