Something That Just Makes Us Laugh
TKA Something Topic: Bestial Discipline after 20% crit…
Hunter #1: Here’s the exact quote that www.bigredkitty.net says:
“Once a BM hunter’s crit rate hits 20%, his Go For The Throat talent should be providing enough Focus that BD isn’t necessary.”
Really? I’ve got about 35% crit right now and both my Windserpent and Ravager seem to be using a lot of focus often. I think if I got rid of Bestial Discipline, my pet’s DPS would go down. Is he right? Am I wasting 2 points?
Some Spreadsheet Guy:
Bigredkitty.net isn’t really a solid Theorycrafting site. Most of the advice dispensed there is based on gut instinct and anecdotes. Doesn’t mean it’s all wrong, but it’s not necessarily right either.
The spreadsheet can be used to calculate focus needs/regen based on your pet, his abilities, your crit, talents, and shot frequency.
Hunter #2: Never even heard of BRK before. Do they have information up on the site anywhere besides the news feed?
Hunter #3: I think they have forums, and he use to have “guides.” As I recall he once had an advice column on not using steady shot, so take it all with a large grain of salt. With that said is blog is usually a fun read, and he gets lots of points for style.
Hunter #1: Well I just checked using the spreadsheet, and with 23.14% crit as long as i keep 2 in GFT i can remove the 2 points in BD with no dps loss from my ravager. However trying it the other way round keeping BD and removing GFT i get a big pet dps loss. So time to consider where to put 2 extra points i reckon.
/score!
If you’re a died-in-the-wool theorycrafter, there are other sites that will sate your thirst for those discussions much more thoroughly than here, absolutely. However, we really don’t come up with our ideas based upon gut instincts. Tarot cards, tea leaves, coin flips, the voices in the basement, and the occasional WoWWebStats report with subsequent mathematical analysis, you bet. But never gut instincts.
BRK Reader #1: I need to know the exact percentage of Crit I need to ensure my pet will never be Focus-starved, or I’ll just die!
BRK: You’ll need to know your Crit percentage, your firing rate and shot rotation, your pet’s special abilities, whether or not you’re using Growl, and the price of kumquats in Sydney during that last gibbous moon. Try the Cheekster’s spreadsheet; perhaps it will save you.
BRK Readers #2-10: I need to know if I can stop putting two points in Bestial Discipline; I’d really like to get Improved Mend Pet.
BRK: Once you hit 20% Crit, your pet will get enough Focus from Go For The Throat that he won’t be Focus starved. Go play.
See the difference? Our almost year of representation on the Internet has taught us that most people don’t want to break out the slide rules and the TI-99/4 computers just to figure out which piece of gear to wear, and when to respec so as to not look foolish.
If you enjoy freaking out over math minutia, there are places for you to coagulate with your own kind. If you’re looking for a simple foundation of math but otherwise want to just play the game and not look like a noobcake, that’s our wheelhouse. At least, that’s our goal.
And did we ever write a Just Say No to Steady Shot post? We know we did a “Mana Efficiency” post where we showed that Arcane Shot would do more damage assuming unlimited mana, but we profess the use of Steady Shot all the time!
But we do make mistakes, of that there is no question.
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“And did we ever write a Just Say No to Steady Shot post? We know we did a “Mana Efficiency” post where we showed that Arcane Shot would do more damage assuming unlimited mana, but we profess the use of Steady Shot all the time!” -BRK
As hunter #3 I thought I pipe up that the unlimited mana article must have been the one I was thinking of… My head grows foggy with time. Mea Culpa.
So in solo situations, a simple shot rotation of Auto/Steady/Auto/Steady etc Kill Command would be perfectly acceptable, right? I tie that with AotV and I last quite a while before needing to rest or drink.
I can understand that in an ‘unlimited mana’ situation in a raid, I would definitely want to throw in arcane shots, and multishots into that rotation whenever available.
I’m a 67, going on 68 hunter and I’m really just trying to prepare for my first big raids. I love this site, and it’s really helped me improve my game over the past month or so. But until I hit 70 and start taking part, I still have a sense of dread that I’m going to be totally unprepared. I have BRK wisdom fed right into my reader every day, and I’m still worried.
Anyway, keep up the good work BRK!
Sylvaris and Kage on Perenolde
http://perenolde-us.warcrafter.net/Sylvaris
Well, I’m not that “spreadsheet guy” as I assume that’s some forum thread that went on. But I don’t believe that 20% is enough, at least not according to my <a href=”http://someonewowing.blogspot.com/2007/07/again-on-bestial-discipline-go-for.html”spreadsheet!
20% Crit, 2.0 speed (effective speed), Claw only, 150 second fight:
2/2 BD, 2/2 GftT = 101 Claws.
0/2 BD, 2/2 GftT = 070 Claws.
2/0 BD, 0/2 GftT = 080 Claws.
That’s 30% less Claws in my book. Of course, it’s theorycraft and I won’t be checking this out, but when I made the spreadsheet I did some tests and found it pretty damn accurate…
Also, don’t forget that GftT is LUCK based, while BD is ALWAYS there for you… It’s like “chance to proc focus” vs. “on equip focus”…
You don’t use tarot cards? Works for me, look I just pulled out “death” and “the fool”, I consider that pretty ominous. (note tarot cards used may have been imaginary)
Don’t let the spreadsheet-humping haters get to you BRK.
Just off the top of my head, your posts on misdirection macros and the math behind ignore armor items were both incredibly helpful bits of legitimate “theorycraft,” in my understanding of that term.
Cheeky may be the king of hunter itemization, but your discussion of the tips and tricks required to play a hunter adeptly have been far more valuable to me. Keep up the fine work.
-EC
Obviously, I must have missed some closing >!
Proper link here!
Since I know you just got a wind serpent (again), I do have to recommend BD + Go for the Cr–Throat for the family. This is only if you’re running with one regularly, though; for just experimentation sometimes, there’s no reason to respec just to get both focus regen talents–but since my snake is on regular rotation with my cat depending on what I know about spell resist/nature immunity in the dungeon I’m pugging to, I have both still in my final (somewhat loopy) build.
We are of like minds. When we grabbed the guy, we respeced for both of those talents. 50 Focus per shot might need more; we’re investigating. Our 20% Crit’ll Do statement is for Claw/Gore only so far.
The Wind Serpent is definately the pet for the high-crit Hunter. The expensive hard hitting LB is something of it’s own, and Claw/Gore can never match it in an ‘endless focus environment’. Not even in an environment that is near that. So obviously Survival Hunters get lots of love out of it, and of course also those agi-loving BM hunters.
Btw, I won’t jump the boat yet and dump my points in BD. I have near 20% crit and when soloing I can go for what feels like endless periods without GftT, and there BD is just perfect. It is in particular the short intense fights that BD has the edge in…
Even in groups I don’t feel GftT is good enough alone yet. But with a Feral Druid it is there. And that is why I suggest around 25% instead.
Btw, in a mobile fight you end up not having many crits, because you don’t have many active shots. That gimps pet DPS with a pure GftT, BD will help out there.
So again I advice caution.
Well played, BRK.
How ’bout those Dolphins? At least they aren’t unvictorious.
You think the Patriots will match the only team in the NFL to ever go undefeated?
I’ve been a Miami Dolphins fan forever. Don Shula, Nick Buoniconti, Larry Csonka, Bob Griese, Jim Langer, Larry Little, Mercury Morris, and Paul Warfield; THAT was FOOTBALL!
“…want to just play the game and not look like a noobcake”
Perfect! Thank you. Please keep doing what you do best. All that math makes my head hurt.
~~~ Minor rant mode ~~~
You know, theorycrafting isn’t my thing, and I appreciate BRK for only basting his readers with TC sauce once in awhile. I don’t play WoW so that I can differentialize and postulate if my gaining 0.23% of Crit will allow me to top the WoWStats board. I just go with the flow, keep my traps up, keep my cat out of trouble and keep my shots moving. Things are more organic for me if I can just play the damn game.
For the most part — perhaps, BRK is also organic in his approach. Maybe people get the feeling that his analysis of stats is guided by his gut, not because his math isn’t solid, but because he can actually wrap those numbers in words that make sense. While I don’t ponder the intricacies of a 1 point agility gain, I do appreciate all the hard work BRK and others do to burn through the stats and those that write mods like RatingsBuster to simplify my life. Yes, I will have my cake and eat it too, it’s simply delicious.
I think TKA was one of the first hunter sites I read before I found BRK. When I was 40ish and looking for how to be a less n00bish hunter, TKA had alot of solid advice. My only major gripe with that site and their associated forums is that everyone there seems to swear by shot macros. I suppose this is the ultimate expression of the theorycrafting hunter player. Yes, I know that many hunters swear by shot macros, but they are just not my thing. Shot macros cannot really be in the hunter vocabulary until Steady Shot rears its head. However, by the time I reached that “lofty” height I just could not allow myself to program the macro. I actually believe a shot macro would sterilize my game experience. I guess you use what floats your boat, maybe I am too much of a purist to use one. Slamming a macro is just not a challenge though.
In my opinion, no single site has all the information you need to get the hunter groove right. The hunter groove is a personal groove that you gotta find yourself. This really applies to any person and any class. I still do visit TKA on occasion to see if anything worthwhile has emerged. I also love Hunter’s Mark, Renoobed and Shiftusk Does PVP. To keep myself balanced, I will keep an eye on Chain Trap for the survivalist outlook and a few misc ones for Marksman stuff.
I do enjoy BRK for his wit and his BM outlook. This is a outlook I utilize myself and I return to BRK several times a week to enjoy his interesting tidbits. I’d say my favorite stuff is his out of game articles. I like to know that there are serious players in WoW that do have lives. If I had to make one critique, it is that BRK seems to be a bit of a loot whore. I say this only because when I first started reading, I noted that BRK has a lot of articles on loot. However, as I approach 70, I realize this is really all very very useful information. Perhaps BRK is too passionate about his stance? Perhaps this rubs people the wrong way? Yeah, it probably does. Does everyone HAVE to read it? Hell no, you are free to find your groove as you wish. It can be a PVP groove, a markman groove, a survival groove, or even a melee hunter groove (bleh).
Anyhow, cheers. Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year.
~~~ end rant ~~~
Turing - Feathermoon
I think if we’re being honest, we’re all loot whores; it’s the nature of the game post-70. The difference between the good people and the jerks is that the nice people won’t let that get in the way of everyone’s fun (including their own).
“But we do make mistakes, of that there is no question.”
By which you mean claiming that sporebats are not win….
you batist!
BRK!! You Rock!! Ive been a survial Hunter for the last 6 months and I still come here for help and info and love it all……Ive been looking for shot macros for a survival rotation for awhile and everywhere i go I seem to always run into the same argument that is going on here. One side versus another with no 100% solution. I hate macros cause as soon as they get complex it seems the more they screw up. I like hearing how you time your shots by sound. Me, I time mine by sight. I have one casting bar for auto shot and basically force arcane and multi in after a second cycle of 1:1. Anyways hunters r a dime a dozen, with only a few pennies who really stick out, some work, some dont and like ya said before “those who dont, roll Warlocks”