Praise the Sunwell
Patch 2.3.2 has come, sat on the sofa, drank your Mr. Pipp, ate that last bag of Funyons, cast shadow-damage on your bathroom and made it unholy, and generally made itself at home and comfy. Who’s the next party guest?
Patch 2.4 is neigh! What’s this puppy gonna unleash on us? The Sunwell, baby, the first new 5-man, patch-introduced instance in two years. But actually, this place will house two instances: Magister’s Terrace and Sunwell Plateau.
Magister’s Terrace will be a 5-man instance with both normal and heroic modes. That rocks, totally. We’ll be there with bells on.
Sunwell Plateau will be a new 25-man raid for all you Black Temple-geared pimps and pimpettes who have your Tier 6 loot already. And this is where, if our spies are to be believed, that a new Hunter’s Legendary Bow shall drop.
Just so you know, we call Loot Shotgun. If it drops, it’s ours.
It’s all very exciting, yes indeedie-do. But something has already creeped into our brains and we’re not quite sure what to make of it.
You know as well as we do that 27 seconds after that patch comes out, Nihilum, Death and Taxes, and the rest of the, “We do nothing but WoW for world-firsts” guilds are going to clear Sunwell Plateau a couple of hundred times. We have nothing against the uber-raiders, honestly we don’t. At least we don’t think we do. Maybe we really do, though. Perhaps we are a little jealous.
Are we afflicted with Progression Animosity?
Our guild has cleared Kara and Gruuls and working on SSC. In the grand list of guild-progression, we’ve got a long way to go. But we’ve come a long way, too, and of course there are people who haven’t gotten as far as we have. Makes us wonder if some folks reading this have a small progression-jealousy of us.
Hmm. It’s logical, isn’t it. But we don’t want people to be “jealous”, that isn’t why we blog. And perhaps the D&T folks similarly don’t want us to be “jealous” of their accomplishments. Can we give them that benefit of the doubt?
We are. As such, we’re going to act in a fashion that we would hope others would act towards us.
Go Big Guys! Go bring Sunwell Plateau to its knees. We’re rootin’ for ya! /cheer!
And remember - Loot Shotgun, we totally called it.
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30 Responses to “Praise the Sunwell”
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Um, did BRK forget ZA, which was patch-loot not too long ago?..
doesn’t matter…. LEGENDARY BOW FTW! =]
Added “5-man” to clear up the error.
Team Cartel ventures into SSC for the first time tomorrow. We’re gunning for Lurker.
Wish us luck.
Cynddl and Lips
Underdog should be done keying folks for a venture into Kara weekend after this one. Maybe…
Depending on schedules.
And other things.
Yes, I have progression envy. I am also envious of those folks who began a game (any game really) at the very beginning. They have stories the later-comers can’t have.
My guild has cleared Kara once. One time. And they’re ready to abandon it and start taking on Gruuls.
I think we’re setting ourselves up to fail.
BRK, it won’t actually be possible for them to run into Sunwell and clear it instantly. Blizz has announced that Sunwell will have 6 bosses, but the last 3 will require unlocking by a server wide AQ War Effort-like event. (Though it’s based on daily quests so maybe there’s some hope that it won’t be another economy killing craft materials grind like AQ Gates was).
The real question is do these guys skew Blizzard’s perception of how tough and/or stupid some of these instance fights are?
I don’t have any envy I would be there if I could ever find a guild that didn’t have 4 or 5 hunters all waiting for the same spot or the guild that is starting a second kara group you get there and they can’t fill 1 kara group all but the hunter spots….
Got in to a new guild everyone has been to kara but the guild has not been yet, got everything together all ready to do it Monday had a full group that looked real good then found out the GM was saved to it. He says he has not been there since last Monday but that blew the whole thing so we are going to try again Sunday….
Occasionally I do have mild progression-jealousy… given that I’ve only done 2 Outlands Instances (and 1 we didn’t even finish).
On the other hand, every guild I’ve run with aside from our “98% of this guild knows each other in Real Life” tends to explode in drama-stupidity, and I can’t stand stupidity.
I very much look forward to Wrath, where it’s possible that I, as a casual/not-super-social player, will get to interact with Arthas.
@For The Pie
You have nailed it. Jealousy is not the correct word here… ENVY is.
I have don’t have progression envy… I have guild envy. End game progression follows from a good guild. The time required to build and maintain that type of guild is, at least for me, prohibitive at this time.
@BRK
I remember your blog postings about the guild “Sapped Girls…” and you have clearly landed on your feet with AC. I am glad for you AND envious: both are true.
What’s interesting is that on a lot of servers, 90% of the population is around kara/T4 level. Of those a few will venture into SSC/TK (Looter from below and Loot Reaver).
So once WotLK comes out, 80% of the players haven’t seen the end of SSC/TK and 95% of players haven’t seen the end of MH/BT.
New gear comes out. At level 72 greens will have replaced your epic T5 gear, and you work on the next raids..
I was a late commer to the game, I joined after TBC. So I have never seen the insides of any level 60 raid dungeon. And will most likely never see the insides of them.
Does this mean that the 80% of players who have not seen the insides of BT/MH will, after WotLK, keep not seeing it and go straight into the level 80 raids? (Or maybe run them with a 10-man group once just to say they’ve been there and continue in their level 80 blue gear as that is tons better than T6 level gear)
Is WoW just geared towards the top 5% of players&guilds that clear the end game raid dungeons within months of them being available?
@Canth
That’s part of the reason Blizz is revisiting Naxx as the entry level raid dungeon for WotLK (retuned for 25 people, but still the same basic instance/fights).
Ok, yeah, I’ve got a little guild-progression envy.
Not to say that I’m not intensely proud of my little guild (WoWoholics Anonymous on Scarlet Crusade) - for only 12 accounts, we’re doing pretty good with Kara. We’ve been really fortunate with most of our raids in being able to pug a few here and there where needed.
I’m pretty excited about the new 5-man though.
Canth, those number probably are equivalent to what happened pre-TBC regarding the Nax instance, maybe worse. There were only a couple of guilds on our server even running Nax.
So to answer your question, I’d say yes wow seems to be geared for those 10%.
I have the envy, but I also have the desire to not raid more than a couple nights a week. I read the post with BRK’s weekly WoW schedule, and could in no way devote that much time to a game. Since I can’t have it both ways, I will just continue to enjoy playing at Karazhan level and below, and live vicariously through some of the posts here.
Progression envy is really pointless; what are you really jealous of? That someone else has more free time to play WoW than you do? That they do more with the game time they have than you do? That they are willing to endure the tedium of endless instancing longer than you? That they are more willing to put up with foaming raid leaders and ridiculous demands on their time than you are?
I’ve been in endgame guilds in WoW and EQ, and have nothing to show for it but highly dubious bragging rights, and a few somewhat entertaining stories that other old-timers might enjoy. I can verify that being there when your guild woke The Sleeper in EQ will not get you a date, no matter how well you tell the story.
For most people, I speculate that it’s not so much jealousy at what other guilds are doing as dissatisfaction with their own guild’s progress. If this is true for you, then you have two options: be part of the mechanism by which your guild improves and becomes capable of taking on and beating more and more difficult content, or jump ship and find a guild that has already laid that groundwork. The first option is more satisfying in the long run, but it is frustrating and very demanding. The second option is usually very gratifying in the short term, but in the long run you may find you’re just a cog in the mob-slaying machine that is only as valuable as your ability to show up and follow orders.
There’s also a third option: play the game the way you want to, when you want, and have fun with the friends you enjoy playing with. If you’re having a good time, you’re winning at WoW. That’s really all there is to it. If all you have left to show for your time in WoW in five years is memories, would you rather they be fond memories of good times with friends, or of being a useful cog in a well-oiled machine? I’ve been a cog; I’d rather remember having fun.
The envy for me is not progression based but rather guild based, as mentioned by Eustacius.
Experiencing advanced content is nice, but enjoying it with a close team of people, some of which actually take expertise and performance in their role as seriously and intensely as you do in yours, and whose schedules generally match yours.
That is a treasure worth more than any world- or server-first accomplishment.
Envy, yes. But only a little. I finally found a guild that is running Kara on regular, late evening schedule and has room for a dime-a-dozen mage. (Of course, it makes their decision to take me along easier when I topping the damage meters every night.) I’m going to see Zul’Aman eventually, so that will meet all my personal raiding goals for the game. Gruul, Mag, and beyond are for a more dedicated tier of raiders that I’m not quite ready for.
Of course, if anyone on Draka, Horde side, needs more DPS, let me know.
I would be jealous if you were doing it on a schedule of 2 hours a night, 3 nights a week. That’s the kind of schedule i could partake in. However, I’m betting that you run 3 or even 4 hours a session when you raid and I’m simply not able to give up that much sleep. I want to keep my job.
Ok I thought you were an uber raider. I can’t imagine what you refer to as an uber raiding guild. Do those folks have any kind of life? lol
Would like to raid but real life says different. Maybe one day.
The real bonus of the uber-raider is that they figure out the strats so we mere mortals don’t have to.
I’m absolutely envious of you BRK. I’ve been sticking with my guild trying to help them level to 70 and get geared/keyed for Kara. In the meantime, I’ve been forced to basically PUG Kara (no, I don’t recommend it). Yeah, running BM to key a healer who not only can’t keep their tank alive but constantly drags his feet, then disappears after the first outing is not my idea of fun.
I finally got enough good people in my guild to do half and half with another guild. We’re really clicking. Attuman goes down. Moroes goes down. Maiden goes down. We give Oz a shot and call it a night when it bugs 5 times in a row.
The next night, the healer from the other guild drags one of the original ten and 8 new guildies from their guild in without asking anyone. Luckily, they don’t get jack done, but they drag their feet long enough for the other 8 to get irritated that we can’t continue what we started (and we’ve just lost 8 of our 20 spots, leaving 2). We down Oz, down Curator, blow through trash to Chess, gear the other guild’s tank with the King’s Defender.
We’re all feeling good. We try Shade for the first time, wipe three times, then the other guild’s healer decides it’s too late for her (despite the fact that some of us stayed up all night to do Chess at her request). Fine.
The next night we try again, only to wipe a couple more times before the other healer once again decides that she’s done. Whether it’s because of work or her frustration (she’d previously run with bigger guilds), she calls it off after a couple tries again.
We decide to try again, only she doesn’t want to (the other tank was her friend and this came through him). Naturally we’re irritated and a couple more assertive guildies whisper her to express their displeasure. Turns out her kid is sick, but the damage is done and there’s no fixing it. She leaves the other guild to return to one of the bigger ones she used to run with.
Chances of running Kara anytime soon: next to nil. Most guilds are used to huntards and even if they need a DPS spot filled, don’t want a hunter (mage yes, warlock yes, hunter no). I’m now faced with trying to get a strong warrior tank trained and geared, as well as training and gearing a holy priest. We’ve got a 70, but in quest greens (and “of the hierophant” gear). That means endless non-heroic instance runs for blue gear and rep. That’s followed by a few dozen heroic runs for some purple gear and more rep.
Finally, I get to return to Kara. That’s assuming of course that said priest doesn’t decide to up and abandon the guild in the middle of that process because a bigger guild sees potential.
I like my guild. I like the company. I’m afraid of joining a bigger raid that will kick you from the raid for failing to escape Shade’s arcane explosion and treats the game like a job. But then again, at least I get to see that content I want.
I do have a little envy. I play WoW for the story arcs and it’s rather hard to follow them when the stories take you to places my guild can’t go.
As a Protection Paladin, finding a guild that will treat me as an equal to my Protection Warrior brethern is rare, but I have that in of Altar of Storms.
We just killed Mag for the first (with me MT), and are preparing for SSC.
It bothers me some that I won’t get to BT before WotLK, but the only guild on my server in BT raids before I log on.
How is Bliz only focused on the top 5-10% of the player pop? I see Blizzard doing a good job of trying to keep their game balanced. They have to add new content on a regular basis or the uber guilds will stop playing, but they also balance that with those who don’t want to run instances by having BGs and the Arena. They are adding a new 5 man and heroic in addition to the 25 man, they’ve added another 10 man for those who are post Kara and don’t have enough for 25 man’s.
And to Pyrius,
Man, I’ve been there. I was in a guild that had no vision to even go to Kara. I stuck it out thinking, “Things may change when I get to 70.” They didn’t, I tried to encourage our 70’s to get keyed (we had 20 lvl 70s and almost none of them had been keyed). I helped get an alliance with another guild who was close to raiding Kara. The other guild starting raiding Kara w/o us because it took so long for us to get keyed. I had PuGed Kara with a group who needed another DPS (and I got Legacy on my first run!). In the end I knew what I wanted (to experience end game raiding) and I began looking for other guilds and eventually found an awesome guild on a different realm. We have Kara on full farm, usually clearing it in one night, we are 3/6 through ZA and are preparing for some 25 man action this weekend. We’ve began running heroics on non raiding nights a guild and are having a blast. So my advice is, sometimes a guild change is in order. It’s tough leaving a guild but if you do it the right way then there shouldn’t be any hard feelings (I have an alt in my original guild to stay in touch with my old guildmates). Remember its a game, you should be deriving enjoyment out of it.
Oh, and there are realms/guilds that need hunters, just look through the guild recruitment threads on worldofwarcraft.com.
I can understand the envy, and at the same time, I can give you the biggest reason why it’s not a big deal.
As you progress through the content, if you’re anything like me, it’s the thrill of all the little victories along the way. The big kills on particularly difficult bosses are a blast, but then there’s also the things that happen as the raid force gets better geared and more comfortable playing together as you go.
The first time you one shot a boss you just learned recently.
The first time you go rolling through Kara without a single wipe.
The first time you do the same thing to Gruul and Maulgar.
The first time you knock out all of SSC in 3 hours.
When it comes to raiding though, there’s a point at which you’re generally out of new things to do. Like so many other things, it’s all about the journey and not the destination.
You’re in a good situation with a good guild. You’ll see the content, and you get to experience it at a leisurely pace. It also means you won’t be bored for 8 months waiting on something new to come out for you to beat down in 27 minutes.
Thanks jmfries, glad I’m not alone in my experience. At least in the meantime, my guild has started one shotting heroics on a nightly basis. That’s fairly gratifying.
I raided pre-TBC. Raided too much actually. So a revisiting of my priorities pulled me out of the raid game around the time AQ40 opened on my server.
I’m still in touch with those of my old guild, so I’m happy with the people. However, I would really love to experience some of the more epic fights in WoW.
C’Thun
The Frozen Dragon in Naxx
Kael’thas
Illidan
The loot is secondary. The experience (especially Kael’thas) is what I’m really wishing I could participate in.
I don’t know about the others, but the C’thun fight was a HUGE disappointment. For all the buildup to AQ, you’d think the ultimate boss, the Cthulhu of WoW, would be more interesting to fight. The fight is not extremely complex, just difficult to execute flawlessly, and it’s pretty long. But for all C’thun’s mental smack talk while you advance through AQ40, the actual fight is pretty dull. You battle through phase 1, C’thun comes up, you battle through phase 2, and… his eyes roll up in his head and he keels over sideways. No trash talk during the fight, no dramatic death speech, no special effects, no promise of retaliation, nothing; just a big dead blob. Bah.
Ragnaros and Nefarian are much more interesting and engaging encounters, in my opinion. Even if you’ve beaten them 100 times, it’s still fun to engage them. C’thun is a huge letdown at the end of a tough instance, especially for the enormous effort it takes (took) for a guild to get that far.
Oh wow! I come late to the dance and you’re all talking about something I’ve just spend a month and a half doing. BRK, here’s a gold. Be a sweetie and get me a dwarven stout. Keep the change. No, I’m not dancing on the table. I will be so glad if the promise of changing dances comes true.
Was in a guild that struggled and struggled to get people motivated to group for anything. Nice people but 80% solo players. Merged with another in the same situation. New name and new faces and, bam, on any given night, 15+ guildies on at the same time. “Um, I need a (insert instance name) run” and you had 4 other people to help. Kara attunement in high gear.
Mid-September, the GL has an involuntary separation from WOW and the gears of attunement grind to a halt. By November, when the officer corps (and, sadly, I admit that included me) finally tried to energize things, it was too late. I left the first weekend in December and things imploded after that.
For what did I leave? The chance to see ALL WOW content. I formed my own guild, “Spectacular Death” on Llane with the very idea that we’re going everywhere. It took me 9 times (yes, I kept track) to get BM done to get keyed for Kara and I’m still not in there. I don’t care. If it comes, it comes. We are getting people attuned for Onyxia. That’s going to be our first big guild raid because more people are around that level.
As many of you have said, “It’s about fun.” Couple people asked last night if we could do ZG. “I’ve heard about it. Can we do that?” Sure!
I used to get envious as I watched people in other guilds talk about “farming” Kara. But then I decided, I’m making the game the way I want it to be and I hope others who have come to my guild feel the freedom to make the game the way they want it to be, although the link on the web site says, “The ONLY hunter’s blog you will ever need”.
You can dance the happy dance about Legacy. I’m dancing because I finally got the boots to drop off Pandemonius, I’m exalted with Sporeggar and have my spore bat pet, 7 guildies are within reach of attunement to Onyxia AND we’re all having fun.