It’s All About the H20
“Dear BRK, I’ve heard you talk about great lunch spots where you work. I read Renoobed yelling about pizza today and I was wondering where you get good pies in Florida. Magilla and Gorilla.”
First, if you’re named Magilla and your pet is Gorilla, we demand a screenshot.
Next. The problem with pizza from anywhere but New York is the water. If you’re not from NY, you don’t understand and that’s OK, we like ya anyway. The water quality in NY is not just measured in particles of contaminants per million, it’s about the mineral content. NY water is the perfect balance of minerals that makes the best drinking and cooking water on the f-ing planet, foshizzle.
And superior water makes better dough, and superior dough makes the best pizza. Superior water also makes the best bagels and bread and everything else.
There is a pizza place near our first apartment in Orlando, Brooklyn Pizza. The owners are from Brooklyn. They are bona fide NYers. We’ve been to their restaurant, it’s like they took the greasy dive of a pizza joint from our high school memories and rebuilt it in Orlando; it’s that authentic-looking. Their pizza is better than anything else we can find here.
But compared to the regular stuff one can get from any pizza place on Long Island, it’s crap. Sorry, that’s just the way love, and the water, goes. There’s a reason one can order 214,000 different toppings on these pizzas: it’s to mask the terrible dough that’s made from the filth they call ‘water’ outside of New York.
“Dear BRK … my tank pet (a boar) has his points spent pretty much to maximize health and get the most armor I can, with the leftover points going to resists. I generally only use him soloing so I don’t think resists are that big a deal.
“However for my grouping pet, a wind serpent, I put I believe resist 2 (60 resist) to every school and then used the rest of my points for stamina in order to kind of cover all cases, since I’m not always able to go to the old world and respec my pet before an instance.
“Is it really any good doing that, or is the resist he gets from each school too minor to be very effective? Is there a maximum effective level of resists where having more is useless? I’m basically just wondering if, when given the opportunity, I should max out the pet’s resists for the particular instance or if that is overkill. Rai”
While soloing, resists aren’t that necessary as you’re going to kill everything you see too quickly for them to “magic” your pet to death. However when doing instances, we definitely recommend dumping the armor training and picking rank three of the resists most common to the specific instance.
Why only rank 3? Because pet resistance-effectiveness is not linear. It looks something similar to this:
Rank 1 = 13% Mitigation, costs 5 points (2.60% per point)
Rank 2 = 20% Mitigation, costs 15 points (1.33% per point)
Rank 3 = 25% Mitigation, costs 45 points (0.56% per point)
Rank 4 = 29% Mitigation, costs 90 points (0.32% per point)
Rank 5 = 32% Mitigation, costs 105 points (0.30% per point
Note: These numbers are not exact, can change based upon the mob attacking your pet, and are given solely for the purpose of showing how higher-rank resists are not as point-efficient as their lower-ranked brethren, i.e. training rank 3 does not guarantee a 25% mitigation in spell-school damage.
The problem is that the cost for the upper-rank spells is so high that you’ll cut into your pet’s other spells, like not being able to get Dash, Max Stamina, Cobra Reflexes and Avoidance 2. The approximate 25% reduction in damage from Frost, Fire, etc. is plenty to sustain your pet in any encounter we’ve run up against.
For example, we’ll train Hobbes with Arcane Resist 3 and Frost Resist 2 for Shade of Aran so he can handle an Arcane Explosion and tank the water elementals. We’ve covered all the pet-resist recommendations before, we even link to that writeup in our sidebar.
And if you’re ever in Oyster Bay, be sure to look one one of these places. We especially love Mario’s sicilian pies…
/drool
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37 Responses to “It’s All About the H20”
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Chicago Deepdish > All other pizza.
I love they way people think “thier” choices are the shiznit.
The Marix beats everything….and it has you now……MWUHAHAHAHAH.
And as for the “mineral” content of NY water…thats toxic waste…and the reason the dough is better…natural yeast fed on industrial waste runoff. MMmm real good on the kidneys/liver…hope you have a donor lined up. At least I live near the Best Santa Maria Style Tri-tip resturant in the world. Yall can have your Glowy Pizzas..I’ll stick to Beef: It’s whats for dinner.
Depending on your racial resistances, you can do some pretty interesting things with damage mitigation on your pets. We did Spite and Bane yesterday in Kara, and with full raid buffs (including Prayer of Shadow Resistance on both me and Nemesis) + my racial resistance (shadow, draenei) + Avoidance 2 + two ranks of shadow resistance, Nemesis was pretty much camping out in the void zones and taking jack for damage on Spite. It was awesome! (Also, I think pets are immune to Spite’s aura, but it was still awesome that he wasn’t getting munched by the void zones.)
I admit to being untrained in the ways of pizza. :C I mean, I think Domino’s is pretty good stuff, which probably makes those trained in the way of the Pie sob.
i have to partly agree on the dough, though i’m not sure it’s because of the water. i’m from north jersey originally and there are some pretty good pizza places there, almost as good as ray’s pizza (not that one, the other one).
now i live in south jersey and let me tell ya, i must have tried 15 pizza places before finding a good one. although the dough is the best in the area, i find it’s really the sauce that separates it from the rest.
oddly enough, i can look at a pizza around here and tell if it is even worth trying, so there has got to be something about the dough…
New York pizzas are made with n00bsauce. Chicago deep dish is filled with awesome and win.
Yelling?
I wasn’t yelling
And, while I think BRK’s theory of water mineral content is, erm, novel, to say the least, he is right as far as it being all about the dough. Personally, I believe its all about competition. You live in a place with good pizza, everyone gets better or goes outta business. North Virginia is a sad place compared with Louisiana, foodie wise.
New York pizza, while better than most others, holds no candle to Italy and its amazing pizza joints…a must try for anyone that loves pizza.
Brotik, you read my mind! Pizza in Rome, Italy is vastly different from anything I’ve ever had. I’m in Rochester, NY (Western NY to ya noobs, NOT Upstate.. why does that other me?) and we have some kick ass pizza joints ’round this way. The dough is definitely a deal breaker, but how sweet or salty the sauce is makes a big diff. I had some pizza in Charlotte, NC and it was GOD AWFUL! But I’m spoiled I guess, we’ve got Buffalo wings to boot! Not that Buffalo-style stuff I see out there.
Chicago style pizza? Uno’s has icky pizzas. If I wanted uncooked deep dish pizza’s I’d… no, I just wouldn’t!
I don’t know about the water. But I agree NY pizza is the best. I personally think it has to do with the cheese, olive oil, and of course the dough.
Thank you for another entertaining post, BRK.
As a West Coaster, born and bread, I can tell you that our pizza does not compare with NY. Nor does it compare with Chicago’s. The only place in California I’ve found woth beans is Vincenso’s. There are a few locations in So. Cal.
Comparing NY pizza and Chicago pizza is like comparing a BM Hunter and a SV Hunter. They’re both good, just depends on your preference.
@Macciatto )p
I lived in Upstate NY for 4 years and got around to all the places and sometimes getting some really good food. I do occasionally order from a place in Buffalo some authentic wings and wing sauce, maybe it’s time to order that pizza too.
Now I’m originally from Claifornia where they make all the weird pizzas. I’ve had NYC pizza and I’ve had Chicago pizza. All 3 places make good pizzas… they’re just different and anyone claiming “pizza from my homeland” > all is simply being nostalgic and not in the least bit objective.
It’s silly really this “my pizza is better than your pizza” argument.
So, I have a mix of friends from Chicago and NYC here in Seattle and there is nothing I like to do more at a party than to get in the middle of all them… just mention pizza and watch the fight. You’ve never seen a more absurd, pointless and ridiculous fight than Chicagoans and New Yorkers duking it out over pizza. It is just about the funniest thing I have ever witnessed… people getting very seriously worked up and angry defending the pizza they ate growing up.
Now, as for water quality… there is a certain lake in Ireland, rich in gypsum and irish moss, whose water is used to brew a certain famous Stout. If you are claiming that the mineral content of New York is superior to the natural water quality of this lake… please educate me as to why New York cannot create decent beer… or coffee. That lukewarm, lightly caffeinated, ever so slightly coffee flavored water you guys drink is a disgrace to coffee! Water plays a far more important role in the making of quality coffee and beer than it does in the creation of quality pizza dough! With the Cascade Mountains just to the east of me, it’s no wonder there is a booming business of quality breweries all over the Pacific Northwest and the industry is pretty much non-existent East of the Mississippi. Quality of water… ha! (well, the agricultural production of barley and hops in Eastern Washington and Oregon helps too!)
So, this New York/Chicago thing is just silly. There are lots of places in the world to get quality pizza. You just need to throw out your preconceived notions and silly sentimentality. Heck, the best Indian food I’ve ever eaten was, in of all places, Moscow Russia! If I can find decent Mexican food in Seattle, you can find decent pizza in Florida.
B.B.Q.
’nuff said.
First it’s made with meat…lots of meat.
Second, do you see folks saying ROFLWTFPIZZAOMG? NO! It’s got BBQ in it. cuz everyone knows BBQ is better.
Here in KC we have so much BBQ we hold 2 national championships. not 1 —-2
We are one of the fattest cities in the nation…err wait..not a good point.
Water should have Hyrdogen and Oxygen and maybe some minerals. NOT parts of Jersey and dead people in it.
not to steer the topic away from pizza, but ever have a sabrette hot dog from a hot dog vendor where it’s sat in that NYC-hot dog water mix for hours? it tastes great, and so far i haven’t been able to reproduce that same taste no matter how many packs of sabrette i go through.
could very well be there is something to be said for the water.
BRK, where is the info for those pet resistance-effectiveness curves coming from? I get that there are a number of variables that can influence the end numbers, and I’d like to look into it more myself. Thanks.
The question was trying to find good pizza in FLA! Since BRK lives in the Big O town he should try Rossie’s on OBT by Oak Ridge Rd. Best Big O pizza for the last 35 years. That’s if its still open, haven’t been back there for a few years now.
Give it a try when your on that side of town again looking for a Mac at the Apple Store.
When is Blizz going to allow us to specialize our cooking professions into the various pizza talent trees: NY, Chicago, and West Coast.
And, anybody who chooses anything but NY gets all their food buffs reduced by 50%
Of course, those who choose NY style have to train their pet with points in +toxin resist, but so be it. Good pizza is worth any DPS sacrifice.
So Sayeth Pizza the Hut
There are, generally, 3 ’styles’ of pizza I make… and these’re generalizations. From my experience 10 years ago, Italian Pizzas in Italy have just as much variation as in America… (except for deep dish, never saw that there)
1: Italian style -> thin bread, very little sauce, cooked directly on a (as hot as your oven will go to) degree stone for about 5-6 min. If the pizza takes longer than that to cook, you made it wrong and need to strip some toppings. A big slice should not droop when held from the crust. (This dough I let rest for over 20 hours -> need good gluten development and yeast growth to get texture and flavor out of it or it turns into ‘cracker’ pizza)
2: New York style -> slightly thicker and puffier bread than in #1, toppings are dominated by cheese. A slice should droop when held from the crust. In America, it’s the most ’standard’ pizza style.
3: Chicago deep dish: Cooked in a round stone (iron would work just as well) dish with a little over 2 inch sides. Fill the puppy up, sauce is king here, and the crust gets to be more bready. I cook it much longer at a lower temperature. (have to make sure you get it done all the way through)
-3a Variant: Deep Dish Pizza Pie. I learned to make this living in Michigan from a Pizza man from Chicago while working on a PhD. You start with a layer of dough, add your toppings, save cheese and most of the sauce. Add another layer of dough, then your sauce and cheese on top. This bad boy is a massive, self contained pie. Reserve these for when you’re really hungry. (it’s basically a New York Pizza on top of a Chicago Pizza) They take a while to bake…
All of them have their benefits and all of them will be purchased for triple what they normally cost when sold by the slice to drunk college students!
Personally, I love the Italian Style Pizza. My personal best dough is well suited for them, they’re quick to make once you’ve let the rest in the fridge overnight… they just require more equipment, but if you have a stone and a peel, you’re set. My crust secret is to dissolve a little ascorbic acid (vitamin C) in the water before adding my yeast… don’t tell anyone I use it for Italian style pizza as it’s really a French baking trick.
Though I don’t do it, many will add milk to their New York crust: helps to keep it moist and brown at the crust.
In truth, New York pizza is a spectrum between #1 and #2… with the debate raging as to what is true New York Pizza… but go to Brooklyn and you’ll find the droopy cheese bombs that are distinctly New York Pizza to me.
BRK, there is a Mellow Mushroom Pizza on Aloma Avenue in Winter Park.
I dare you to go there, and tell me their dough doesn’t meet your standards.
I DARE YOU!
ok BRK is right about the water I have never been but we have place here in phoenix and it is owned by brothers from NY and they have the water treated to the exact spec from NY.
‘Chicago Deepdish > All other pizza.’
qft
NY FTW
There’s something else that’s amazing about NY Pizza, it literally screams the nature and culture of the city itself. It is perfect to grab on the go—just fold it up and grab some napkins, that quick bite inbetween point A and B when you’ve got millions of things ahead of you to do.
Perfect to eat standing up at the counter, no dealing with “the dining experience”, it’s you and the slice. No knife/fork like Chicago, no mess, no fuss.
Deep Dish is stuffed with tons of crap and overcompensates. Although every respectable NY Pizza joint will have choice of toppings, there’s a reason why they prepare and turnover more classic cheese or “plain” pies through the day—it stands on its own merit. Add to that all the seasoning that you can sprinkle on if you desire, Oregano, Garlic, Hot Pepper, whatever, it’s the minimal touch everyone can appreciate.
Perfect for when it’s past 1AM and everything else is closed, but ohso hits the spot. That to me is what makes it truly top tier.
Domino’s is terrible, as such are other chains—I’d only eat the breadsticks at most.
NY Pizza > than everything
Ben’s Pizza W3rd and MacDougal…
the pizza place where they filmed the opening for Men In Black 2 – or at least some outside shots. Best pizza in the city. Was great going in there and getting two slices (pepperoni or cheese only please) and soda for less than $5. Especially while at school.
A couple quick comments
Long time reader, first time poster…
@Macciatto: if you’re in Rochester, NY (and your right about the Western thing LOL) the only place you should be eating is Nick Tahou’s. Search “Garbage Plate” via wikipedia for those who don’t know and want to gaze upon the finest dining creation man has ever come up with. Since moving to O-Town in 1996 I have missed a hamburger plate with mac and fries and of course, all the toppings. /droolus maxiumus
@BRK and anyone else on the East Side of O-Town looking for good pizza. There is a place on 50 and Alafaya in the Blockbuster Plaza called Goodfellas Pizza. It is my favorite on the East side. Their white pizza is worth running into Ironforge as a naked Tauren and getting the deserved beating over, especially if you get ’shrooms and spinach on it.
@Hathorn- Mellow Mushroom’s dough isn’t even close to NY style.
You’re wrong about NY having the best water in the world. The best water comes straight from the tap at my parent’s home in the country. It’s well water (aka spring water) but they have a water softener unlike everyone else so the water is sooooo great. It’s like that bottled spring water that you city slickers love so much…minus the plastic taste. My parents are also nice enough to bring me 4 litre jugs of the stuff whenever I need it.
Score one for the country bumpkins. Woot!
New York has the best water in the world? Really? Well, oh, so almost.
You’re *so* close with the use of the word “York” it’s painful but basically if you try moving several thousand miles east to Yorkshire in England, there shall ye find water of pure awesomeness. Seriously, best cup of tea you’ll find ANYWHERE! Stands to reason the likes of pizzas and other bread-based foods follow suit very quickly.
@Bacaba — I’m not saying that it is close to NY’s dough, I am just saying that it is not bad tasting.
First: There’s pizza (only if made in NY) and then there’s crap. I like pizza, not crap!
Second: Rizzo’s in Astoria gets my vote, but you pretty much can’t go wrong with NY pizza (NYC or LI) so long as its dirty inside and looks like there’s 2 inches of grease on everything; grease-stained yellow is the color of pizza love.
Third: Oyster Bay?!?!?! OMG! That is a scary place. Did you go to OBHS?
I could point you to some pizza restaurants in Rome or Naples for judging yourself, but i doubt it will be easy for you to try them
Anyway Pizza FTW and best regards by an italian BRK Blog’s reader
@CrimsonHavoc
I hate to break it to ya, man, but Nick’s is no more. It’s now Steve T’s. I think one of the sons bought it and I haven’t been back since they’ve changed it to tell you if they’ve changed their garbage plates.
I grew up on Long Island, then moved to Dela-where?
I’m in pizza hell! Somebody save me!
Seriously, we take trips up to NY and always bring back a few calzones and about $80 bucks worth of pastries every time. Brooklyn bakeries are the best! Long live the cannoli!
And someone missed the definition of NY style pizza. Its somewhat thin crust, light sauce, tasty cheese.
One slice is twice the size of most normal slices, like dominos.
When you grab the slice by the crust and fold the points together, the slice’s bottom crust will snap slightly to form a perfect diamond shape. It does not droop even slightly. Just cheesy, saucy, crispy goodness.
It is definitely not a nostagiac stupid argument. I love pizza and tried it in many different states and nothing compares to just a plain old slice of cheese pizza from NY.
We’ve also got the same thing here, a small bagel shop that imports water from NY. Only problem is I can’t even find a biali down here, love em!
Also, for the Sabrett hot dog comment. They call them “dirty water dogs”. The secret is just to let the hot dogs sit in the water all day long in hot, but not boiling water, letting the garlic and fat sweat into the water. Just hot enough to keep the germs from proliferating. The more hot dogs in a batch, the better. You might be able to pull it off in a crock pot or something. Its the same secret for the saurekraut. Cook it long and slow with some mustard seeds and garlic.
OMG I’m hungry!
*gag* DRINKING? SON! NY is on the EAST COAST! The watershed for the country is the ROCKIES! You know how much literal CRAP is added to, mostly removed from, and then added back to water by the time it reaches the Atlantic? I repeat.. *gag*.
Come over here to Colorado and try some tap water if you want WATER, son. The minerals are the ones that the EARTH put there, not 97 waste treatement plants along the way.
That being said, pizza here is crap. We do have a nice Cuban place within walking distance, though, so if you, Mrs. BRK, and Hobbes want to come visit, ya’ll are welcome!
@ All – LMAO
Pizza is pizza! It’s all good. Make them with Identical ingredients, cook em different ways. They still taste the same.
As far as Pet resist’s. I’ve followed the BRK theory and it works well. I do have multiple pets for different things..
&&However, I do like the Scorpion with Rank 5 poison. As it does add to the total DPS as it can stack upon itself. Also acts as an interrupt sometimes on casters. “Not that you all didn’t know that”
The only thing I would think about is using a lower Nature resist since we have the Natural ability if we want to sacrafice DPS. but…
Anyways, I do have 2 cats that I interchange a bit depending on the instance.
L70 Scorpid.
L70 Cat from Skettis area
L68 Ghost Sabre ** (Thanks for the fast leveling. I can almost use this cat in Kara)
***Has anyone done the Math***
exa.. – A mathematical comparison of (natural Armor 10, Stamina 10, Fire resist 3) versus (natural Armor 9, Stamina 9, Fire resist 5)
OR however you set it up?
Born and raised in Midtown. Anyone from outside of NYC does not understand New York Pizza. It really is the water. Viva aqueducts! BRK is 100% right. Only place I ever found with almost identical dough was a strange little cafe in the Japanese Alps in a town known for its water. Mineral content ftw.
Chicago style pizza has a completely different philosophy and should not be compared. Not to mention crust texture is night and day.
Born and raised in Patchogue. Lived in Oyster Bay briefly. I’ve had pizza in 20 different states, and nothing is even remotely as good as the WORST that comes out of NY. Chains are, by far, the worst.