We’re Not Qualified, But Not Gonna Let That Stop Us
“Dear BRK, I guess this would not be considered a typical BM hunter question but here goes anyway. Basically, I am disabled with fairly limited use of my arms/hands but can still use a keyboard/mouse although not the quickest to be sure.
“What I am looking for is advice on keybindings/macros to help make playing my BM hunter a bit easier for me. Right now I use the basic setup with WASD for movement and mouse clicks for the majority of my abilities although I do use 1-5 for my most used abilities. As far as macros/keybinds go it is easiest for me to use the keys located in the close vicinity of WASD including numbers 1-5 as it just physically takes me to long to move my hand to the other side of the keyboard. With that in mind I am open to any and all advice as I am new to the whole setup and use of macros/keybinds.
“I have considered switching to ESDF for movement as it might open some more keys to be used. What are your thoughts? Does BM require too many abilities to work with my limitations? Thanks! Mictord”
Let’s talk about keybindings. WoW makes it very easy to make individual keys and key-combinations perform just about all of the actions you’ll need to play a BM hunter. To set up this functionality, please read this post about the basics of keybindings.
Tada, you know how to keybind, now let’s talk about macros. To learn the real basics of macro-work, read this. There’s no point in duplicating effort, is there.
Great. Know you know macro basics and keybinding. Let’s mix ‘em together for one-hand use.
We want you to make your Pet Attack Macro now:
/petattack
/cast Hunter’s Mark
Put the icon for that macro on an used action bar space. Go into the Keybindings setting and make that action bar space assigned a Shift-W keystroke.
If you’re using your WASD keys to maneuver, now all you have to do is Shift-W to start your pet attacking and cast a Hunter’s Mark. That’s very little extra finger-maneuvering and it might help.
What happens when you accidentally send your pet to the wrong mob? The game is pre-programmed to allow us to hit Ctrl-2 to make the pet follow us again, but you can make make a macro and make
/petfollow
assigned to Shift-E, for example, to accomplish the same thing. Or you can simply adjust the keybinding for the pet’s action bar directly and change it from Ctrl-2 to Shift-E, or whatever suits you.
Do you use the same sequence of shots for attacking a mob? You can make a simple castsequence macro and assign that to an easily-pressed key combination.
/castsequence reset=5 Serpent Sting, Arcane Shot
Place this macro on an unused action bar spot and, using keybindings, assign this macro to Shift-A, perhaps. This macro allows you to press a single key combination and accomplish multiple things with repeated pressing. The first time you press Shift-A you’ll cast Serpent Sting, then press Shift-A again and you’ll cast Arcane Shot. With the casting of Serpent Sting, your Auto Shot will commence; you don’t even have to worry about starting that. The reset function will ensure the castsequence sequence resets after 5 seconds of macro-inactivity; you’ll always cast Serpent Sting first.
Let’s go out in the field and test it all out.
You maneuver into position with the WASD keys and hit Tab to target the nearest mob. Hit Shift-W – your Pet Attack Macro – to send your pet to attack and casting Hunter’s Mark at the same time. Once your pet attacks the mob and lands a Growl, your hit Shift-A to cast Serpent Sting, Shift-A again to cast Arcane Shot, then let your Auto Shot, which started all by itself, burn the mob down. Rinse and repeat.
Of course you aren’t limited to using the Shift key in your keybindings, either. You can use Alt and Ctrl to make any key perform at least four different functions, (perhaps the Ctrl, Alt, and Shift keys can be used in combination, but we’ve never tried it.)
Some pieces of hardware you might consider, too: the Belkin Nostromo n52 Speedpad and the Logitech G11 Gaming Keyboard. We link to both in our Amazon store on the sidebar, but we’re not going to link directly to Amazon in this post; we don’t want it to seem as if we’re only publishing this letter just for the chance to earn money from referrals.
Both the n52 and G11 have extra keys that allow you to program even more macro functionality for single-hand use. The keyboard has 18 customizable macro keys on the left of the keyboard that allow you to program 54 macros, and you can still program the keybinding/macro combinations we gave here. The n52 is advertised as allowing 104 commands easily accessible with just one hand, but using the same hand and the n52 simultaneously with a keyboard is probably not advantageous.
Although we have no practical experience recommending things for those with limited-use of their extremities, we sure hope this helps some. At the very least, we’re sure the comments shall be chock-full of other ideas and suggestions.
Edit: Some comment-ideas already, the Ideazon Fang Gamepad,the CH Products Multi Function Panel and the Ergodex DX1.
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One addition and one question.
I’d also recommend the Fang Gamepad by Ideazon. There’s no programming required. It’s basically a reconfiguration of the left side of the keyboard. The WASD keys are bigger and the number keys are grouped together. Also since the gamepad is just a reconfiguration of a keyboards standard keys it plays well with a mac as well as a pc. You can find it on amazon as well.
Does that logitech keyboard play nice with a mac? I notice it only mentions windows compatibility.
This is a perfectly timed post as last night I wrote two macros that allow me to play my BM hunter with just my mouse and shift, ctrl, and alt. My mouse has 4 buttons (the two standard, the scroll wheel works as a button, and a thumb button) and so I wrote the macros to do different things based on if I was holding shift, alt, or ctrl. For example, when I press the thumb button without anything held, it casts “Mend Pet”, if I’m holding shift, it acts just like the petattack example BRK gave except it will also make my cat prowl first, if I hold ctrl it will fire arcane shot, and if I hold alt it will fire my Sting at the beginning of the fight and multi-shot after that. I use my Middle Mouse button for frost traps when I’m running away, ctrl for intimidation, alt for feign death, and shift for BW. I’m considering moving Ice Trap onto the middle mouse and frost trap onto my – key as that’s where ice trap is now. Of course, if the – key is too far away, you can always place it on one of the lower keys, I’m just used to using – for a trap.
Hi Mictord,
It is possible to bind Kill command, steady and autoshot as you may be aware, to one key or button and it will effectively make sure you dont clip the autoshot if you are having any issues with timing. This would be:
/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/cast [target=pettarget] Kill Command
/castsequence reset=3 Steady Shot, Auto Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()
If you used this on, say the mousewheel, Q or E then you would have 1-5 nice and free for traps, BRK Pullshot Macro’s™ and all sorts of other BM wizardry.
P.S
They changed the autoshot functionality in the last patch I believe, for macros. Im not sure how the !autoshot vs autoshot thing works so if someone could clarify that would be awesome.
I have both a Nostromo N52 and a Logitech G15 keyboard, however if you are using a Windows based PC you seriously need to consider buying either an Ergodex DX1 or a CHProducts MFP.
They are pricey compared to the Nostromo or the G11/G15
but they really help people with limited hand movements because you can position the keys where ever you want on the pad.
I have arthritis in both hands and the CHProducts MFP allows me to play without flaring up my arthritis.
If you Google search Ergodex they’ve got information on the DX1 and the CHProducts MFP on their main page. Basically though the difference is that the DX1 is not Vista capable while the MFP is.
(Same equipment but different controlling software)
BRK,
I also use an Ideazon Fang gamepad. Because of the way my desk is setup, it is not easy to get to my KB. Also, I am a southpaw so the Fang is great.
The Fang, or, if you are a righty, any other “external” gamepad, like the Belkin, etc., would work well for someone in Mictord’s situation.
Marxeo
I <3 Macros and Keybinds!
I find the addon “BINDPAD” to be EXTREMELY helpful and a bit quicker/easier to use than the Blizzard Keybindings system. I create my macros (I even have a macro for /bindpad to open the bindpad gui–Now that’s laziness!), then I use Bindpad to setup the keybinds. there are icons at the bottom of the gui for opening your spellbook and your macro gui. you just drag and drop then click the icon you have dropped in bindpad to assign a key or key-combo. Here is the URL to Bindpad on Curse.
http://wow.curse.com/downloads/details/5002/
I have a nostromo and have just set up my entire skill set on it.
I used the following:
- bartender3 addon to rearrange 15 hotbar buttons on screen to match the physical layout of the hardware keys
- a mouse with 2 thumbbuttons (for shift and alt)
5 of my buttons use single abilities or macros, like steady/KC shot rotation macro . 10 of my buttons contain 3 layer macros (conditional macros that cast different spells if used with shift or alt) to hold all the hunter spells and pet feeding etc.
In addition the nostromo has a thumb-operated D-pad that I use to move forvards, backwards and strafing left and right, and a thumb “space” button that I use to jump.
strengths: you dont need to move your left hand AT ALL during play… it just stays on the hardware. Left hand casts spells and does basic movement, right hand assists movement and controls camera angles.
Weaknesses: typing in chat means having to move your left hand onto the main keyboard, or type with the mouse hand. You COULD then keybind Blizzards voice program to the nostromo as well… and ask the people you interact most with to chat with you over voice to further ease your user experience.
Cheers and good luck
BRK,
I use to use the N50 when WoW first came out and it was kinda hard to get use to it (being a lefty) since I was a keyboard pounder for most of my gaming. I just brought a N52 last weekend from Comps USA GOB sale to try to get back into using the speedpad for Areanas and raiding. It still feels a little wierd but I’m really going to try to use it this time.
What nice about the speedpad is that you can set delays between keys/macros but the initails setup is a pain but well worth it.
Dang it now Belkin came out with the te version. dam cant keep up with technology, lol
Galor and Maggie Mae and Rex
Don’t forget the most important macro, keybind it and smash your face on it constantly!
/dontbe
/cast terrible
Hai Mictord!
I saw in your email debating to change over to ESDF and I can wholeheartedly recomend this. It adds a few keys for you to use that are close by. I’m hoping you can benefit from a few tips here to make your playing a bit easier and hopefully alot more fun!
So movement goes to ESDF, what does this do for you? Mostly it gives you a nice patch of keys to use for binds!
Q,A,Z,X,C,V,G,R,T and 1-5. One of the best things you can do is prioritize thing by how you use them. As a BM you probably need to use wingclip and intimidation the most while in motion. The best thing here is to place them on the keys W and R since they are close to your movement pad. Grouping up abilities by type is a huge help also so I would try and pack all of your offensive ranged abilities into the 1-5 region.
1 – Arcane
2 – Multishot
3 – Concussive
4 – Sting
5 – Sting
And then the shots you can only use while planted, use shift+1-5 to store
Shift+1 – Aimed
Shift+2 – Steadyshot
Shift+3 – Autosteady Macro
Then I would mostly look at binding things to intuitive spots like T for freeze trap Q for something used alot like mend pet. And perhaps group your cooldowns like Bestial Wrath and Rapid fire to the bottom row Z X C to avoid accidentaly clicking them. This should give you a good deal of abilities in a smaller area of keys. From there things you use less frequently like a mount or perhaps aspects can be bound elsewhere since you don’t need to hit them rapidly such as F1-F7 Keys.
I would recomend you look to some of the pvp blogs like megs where they discuss keybinding layouts. The things PvPers use to keep key abilities a twitch away will probably help you set something more intiutive up and limit the moving around you have to do.
I use the Wolf King Warrior gamepad. its a circular pad with the wasd cluster and surrounding keys, the numbers(plus – and =) circled around the top edge, and the function keys wrapped around them. it puts a lot of keys within easy reach, and its only $35-40 on newegg, cheaper than a whole new keyboard.
Macro wise… I have a macro to target my focus’s target. when grouped you set the tank as focus(target and type /focus, i have this macro’d for one click convenience) and have a one button target selection.
Ralowae and BlackTooth, Zangermarsh.
I tried to use the mouse moving, but I couldn’t. So I made a lot of key bindings using the shift key. I don’t use my pinky very well due to an injury so I kept the WASD movement keys. My shot rotation macro is bound to the numpad + key so if I can stand in one place i can hammer it there and whip over to the mouse quickly to switch targets or assists.
Works well FOR ME.
Bombing runs are still a little goofy though..
Sometimes repetitive clicks bother my hand…especially when fishing so i hooked up a foot triggered button/key binding and LOVE IT.
http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/fs-savant-elite.htm
Ralowae again, I forgot something. Get a mouse with as many buttons that you can effectively use. My left and right click are WoW standard. My left alternate button (under my thumb) is pet attack. I have two click pet interception, target with left and thumb click to send pet. Middle button (wheel click) is pet follow. its important to have this handy because at some point you will Accidentally send your pet, or need to get him out of aoe range of something big and mean. The right alternate is currently autorun, but i’m thinking putting something else i need faster access to on that one.
Ralowae and BlackTooth, Zangermarsh
I have a G15 gaming keyboard. I think this could work great for you because, it has like 18 programable macro buttons on the left side of the board. In sets of 6 from top to bottom. If you click a button at the top.. it opens up 18 more for you.
ALSO.. it has the LCD gaming screen that gives you alot of very useful information, like percent of armor durability, ammo left, bagspace. Useful things you know?
Makes it so you dont have to click the buttons to check stats and other numbers.
Cgeorgemo here again
I’m going to sound repetitive I know but I have both the Nosrtrom n52 and the G15…neither gets used for playing WoW. The CHProducts MFP takes everything they did and let me physically put the buttons where my fingers naturally fall. Once I get home I’ll try to take a picture of my layout and post it if I can figure out how to link to photobucket for this blog.
If you have difficulty with finger mobility the only advantage the MFP has over the others is the custom button placement.
Not having to constrain my long fingers to the typical placement helps my play greatly and lets me play longer.
The G15 and the n52 are excellent choices if you can take the placement of the buttons or if you play on a Mac.
The only problem with the LCD screen on the G15 is that it defaults to Melee power and crit not Ranged…I wish I knew how to change that.
I can highly recommend the combination of the G15 keyboard (older, good one, not the stripped new version), Nostromo N52, and Saitek GM3200 mouse. N52 is pet control, targeting, and firing. Saitek mouse for castsequence shot rotations, G15 for everything else (e.g. traps).
For a button addon I use Trinity Bars 2.0. It has a higher learning curve than Bartender but can do anything you want with your button bars. Place Trinity Bars in keybinding mode and simply mouse over the button you want bound and mash key to bind it.
Another simple thing is to bind the ” ` ” key (directly left of “1″) to one of the bottom left action bar keys — it basically just extends your row of hotkeys by one, which is especially useful if you’re staying with the WASD movement keys.
I’ve also bound the next five bottom left action bar keys to Ctrl-A, Ctrl-S, Ctrl-D, and so on. It makes hitting those buttons with the keyboard pretty intuitive — almost as easy as the number row hotkeys.
I really recommend the Nostromo N52. I recently switched and I love it. There is a lovely 4 way rocker button under your thumb that will replace your movement keys easily, freeing up even more button space.
Two things, if you are movement impaired. One, the Red button is stiff as all get out on mine, so try it before you hotkey it to something like.. tab. I only have mild arthritis in my thumbs, but I had to rebind it after about 20 minutes.
The other is that you really can move the handrest – it’s just REALLY REALLY HARD! Pull straight up to remove the handrest – you might even need someone to help you. I did. It doesn’t feel like it should come out, but it does. There are then two sets of holes it can go back into. I ended up not using it at all, as my female hands (although they are on the large side for a girl’s) fit better that way.
Good Gaming!
Auntie Fi, Wilbur, and Doofus
Lok’tar and good luck in your adventures!
On a side note….
Ahem *points at the purty Nostromo N52 on the sidebar*
I get the impression mobility is a lot of the problem and multi-key combinations might not be practical if you have to move your hand to locate ctrl, alt or shft under your palm..
The advantage of a pad like the Nostromo is that it can easily be set up so that the “thumb” button works like the WASD keys.
I then use the “little red button” like an alt or shift or control, your pick. This way it is very easy to get up to 30 key binds without the need to move anything but a finger. And! Since you don’t have to re-position your hand, I find I never fumble to get on the right key.
I know someone that uses the slap paddle on the base to change through the three “layers” and therefore gets access to 90 key binds. He claims he uses them all and has them memorized. I call BS! I use mine to call my pet back when I need to get him out of the fire for a bit so to speak.
Hey BRK and Mictord,
I’ll just preface what I’m about to say with I’m not sure if anyone has brought this up and I’m not sure if it will be at all helpful to your particular situation.
I myself use a track ball to play my hunter. I know there are some out there that hate the track ball but I have to say I like using it to play especially since I don’t have a huge amount of desk space to be moving a mouse around on. I can move the mouse at a good clip. with only one finger, across most of the screen to where I need it with out having to move my hand. Just a thought.
-Narian
If you can afford it, the Logitech MX Revolution is a great mouse for a BM Hunter. The mouse has 5 buttons, 4 way scroll wheel (side clicking), and a thrumb toggle wheel. This mouse is AWESOME. The wheel will spin for several seconds (11 seconds for me) with a single spin. The thumb buttons can be bound to kill command and wing clip for quick use. The toggle wheel can be set to mend pet, cast misd, etc. This gives you tons of control with your mouse hand and allows you to have to click fewer times. (I did Kara one handed the other night because my daughter fell asleep in my arms.) At Dr Boom testing it had a perfect 100/100 auto steady rotation. It even does very well with haste buffs (drums, rapid fire etc).
If you can afford this mouse, I would HIGHLY recomend it.
http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/mice_pointers/mice/devices/130&cl=us,en
*just be sure to set the mouse wheel back to normal mode while buffing before a boss fight, bumping the mouse and accidently shooting Aran is a bit embarasing (we still won though. haha)
Another piece of hardware I used to use, and may pull back out again, is the good old Microsoft Sidewinder Game Voice. This is an older piece of USB hardware that incorporated voice recognition. I enjoyed mine, but stopped using it because my wife did not like hearing me say “Zoom in, zoom out, reload, deagle, knife, nade, rifle” late at night at I was playing CS. LOL. They stoped making this thing years ago, but I’m sure you can find one online. I have seen a dude play CS with only limited use of one hand thanks to this thing.
A useful one button pet management macro is:
#show Clefthoof Ribs
/cast [modifier:ctrl] Dismiss Pet;[nopet,modifier:alt][target=pet,dead]Revive Pet;[nopet]Call Pet;[combat][modifier:alt]Mend Pet
/stopmacro [combat][nopet][modifier][target=pet,dead]
/cast Feed Pet
/use Clefthoof Ribs
This will dismiss your pet when ctrl is clicked, revive it if dead, call it if it’s not there, mend it while in combat and feed it whilst out of combat. If the pet is dead and out of sight, use alt while clicking.
A nice BM shot spam macro is:
/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/cast [target=pettarget] Kill Command
/castsequence reset=3 Steady Shot, !Auto Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()
(as Lolrouge and Fail the Boar pointed out with one modification) the ! in front of the auto shot ill prevent it from toggling and instead cause a one time shot. The script stuff prevents annoying messages like “You can’t cast that yet”. This macro is designed to be constantly spammed. Bind it to a key that you can wack continuously. Even the mouse wheel is good.
I know BRK doesn’t like shot macros, but I like them because they leave me free to be more situationally aware of the ongoing fight, and able to trap or kite as need be. Plus I hate staring at a lag enabled cast bar so I can time my shots for maximum effect.
I have a G15, but since the G keys cannot be bound within WoW as regular buttons, I’m stuffing about until I re-write my old G15 binding AddOn.
Anyway.
Personally, I find I don’t have that much dexterity in my pinky, and I’ve never been able to get used to ESDF controls. So, my setup is thus:
1. Get TrinityBars. Actually, you can install whichever bar addon you like. The main point is to have a way to just decide “you know what, I really wish I had a mend pet button over *there* bound to [ / ]!” and then make it happen.
2. Create a bar of 10 buttons. Bind them to 1, 2, 3, 4, r, f, v, c, x and z. You can hit all of these without moving your left hand.
3. Either using a second bar, or using appropriate options in the bar addon, assign a different set of 10 buttons to Ctrl + 1, 2, 3, …, x and z.
4. I then bind my pet bar to Ctrl+Shift + 1, 2, …, z. I don’t bind anything using combinations involving Alt since Alt is my self-cast key. We’ll get to that later…
5. I also bind food/self-cast bandages and water to -, =, with health pot and mana pot to Ctrl + -, =.
6. I have my “panic” bar. A set of buttons on another bar bound to (in no particular order): Numpad 0 (big button, easy to slam with your right thumb: I put FD here); Numpad /, * and . (these are pet control, parachute cloak and mount); mouse 5 (which rests just above my thumb, and is used for my trapping macro) and Alt + mouse 4 (which rests directly under my thumb and controls a few buffs like Rapid Fire and Bloody Fury; regular mouse 4 is usually bound to autorun toggle.)
7. I’ve also got the Numpad numbers bound to my aspects and a few other bits and pieces, as well as a big chunk of buttons not bound to anything. You can *never* have too many buttons.
Personally, I recommend getting a mouse with at least two extra bindable buttons (hint: Logitech mice with the “back and forward” buttons should work well,) and binding your most common actions to 1, 2, …, z and Ctrl + 1, 2, …, z.
A few other tips: since no hunter skill I can think of can actually be cast on yourself (except possibly misdirection, but what would be the point,) you can use macros to make a single slot do more than one thing. For instance, using the alt key, I’ve got the following pairs on the same buttons: Arcane Shot/Arcane Shot (Rank 1), Concussive Shot/Distracting Shot, Serpent Sting/Scorpid Sting.
A more extreme example is my trapping macro. As I said, it’s bound to one of my mouse buttons, and lets me drop any trap I want without having to move either hand at all. For reference:
#showtooltip
/cast [mod:shift,mod:alt] Explosive Trap; [mod:shift] Immolation Trap; [mod:alt] Frost Trap; Freezing Trap
So that’s no modifier for cold traps, alt for burny traps and add shift for the AOE version.
(Note: I don’t have Snake Trap yet, but it’s going to end up on Ctrl+Alt.)
Anyway, hopefully my inane rambling proves at least marginally useful.
Ihave the same logitech mouse as MajHunter. I have mine setup a little different. But, the point is it gives the functionality to just about play 1 handed. I would like to get a gaming pad to play with but this mouse is the next best thing.
[...] nice BRK has posted a followup on key binding (my topic of the moment) – the Shift + movement macros hadn’t occured to me. [...]
Guys as usual with BRK blog and those who comment and advise, this is a fantastic post and topic.
I have no issue with hand movement myself but have a cousin who plays wow who does and sent her a link to this the moment i saw it, I also posted a link to it on our guild forum and asked members to dissemenate it to friends so the advice can spread.
Its the first time I have seen a post coverig this sort of issue anywhere and im a real forum/blog troll so thought it essencial that the fact that advice like this is available,spreads as soon as possible as far as possible.
Im a total computer noob so havent a clue the implications but would it be possible to make this topic a sticky permenantly on the side bar so it dosent get lost over time?
Even better if there is someone out there who knows of a site specificaly devoted to this kind of help and advice or could set one up that could then be linked to on excellent blogs like this and others.
Apoliogies for my James Jouce Ulysses’esque punctuation, i get that way when excited about an idea.
Keep up the good work
Bone
@ Bisque
Admitedly I don’t use my G15 while I play WoW as much as I used it playing UO and EQ but I do have the buttons set to control most of my 2 extra bars of buttons on the right side.
I have a Logitech mouse, with shoulder buttons for macros. Otherwise I just click on the screen.
As I lost my left hand in Iraq, movement wise I have rigged up the QWEASD buttons to footpads that mirror the keyboard (bodge job by my brother I dont think it was too hard).
So I am a right hand, left foot player (and can use my stump on the keyboard depending upon when I last took painkillers).
@cgeorgemo
Back before I accidentally nuked all my custom addons (heh; whoopsie!) I had all 54 G buttons (G1-G18, modes M1-M3) bound to unique action buttons taking up only 3 in-game key bindings.
Some might say this is overkill. My mage, hunter and resto druid think otherwise. They now weep at the lack of hardware buttons. They stay up at night, sitting at the window, gazing out at the moonlit view with a wistful expression on their faces. I tell them to stop being such wusses. They just sigh, and go back to gorging on chocolate chip icecream.
I really need to re-write that d@mn addon…
Small update:
Because of the last patch, a better macro might be
/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/cast !auto shot
/cast [target=pettarget] Kill Command
/cast Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()
Especially with a slower weapon like the Sunfury Bow. Try em both, go with what works.
So it’s a bit late to be posting this, but mayhap the intented (or unintended) will find this of some use:
/targetenemy [noharm]
/stopmacro
/petattack target
/cast Scorpid Sting
What does it do?
Well, the first two lines imitate TAB-targetting, without the tabbing. Why is this useful? Speed! It cuts out a click or button press depending on your play-style. No more hitting TAB/T to select a target, no more clicking to target. Just run around mashing that macro and as soon as you get in range your shot will go off with your pet trailing it.