The Good, The Bad, and the Tragically Noobish
“Dear BRK … I like to do BG’s and arena more than I like to raid. While you have spec’d a BM hunter for raids, is there a way to spec a BM hunter for PvP mostly arena and some BGs? Or should I just listen to everyone else and Go Surv/Marks.
“I need help. I love my BM but people are saying that I should switch, and that BM isnt a PvP build. Riojin and Akira”
If one took the best PvP-hunter out there, made him rotate his spec BM->MM->SV, we have a very strong feeling that he’d do pretty darn well using all three.
If one took a splendidly noobtard hunter and gave him a nice set of PvP gear and a solid spec, we likewise believe he wouldn’t become a tremendously better player overnight.
Gear matters. Spec matters. Mad Skillz matter just as much.
After only seventeen arena matches, we are in no position to offer any advice on the proper and improper specs for arena-PvP. We’re just not! We can logically analyze and make arguments about talents, but we’re going to need much more experience before So Sayeth BRK, So Let It Be Done can be commanded. Like, years.
Our 41/20/0 build is doing well for us, we have a great deal of experience with this spec, but we’re still noobing it up in unexplored and vastly tragic ways. Witness our experimentation with Spirit Bond in 2v2. Tried it, it was not good, and to our credit, away it went. We know how to analyze, we just need more matches under our belt before we can give you Do This posts.
But we can say the following with complete confidence: One can use any talent tree as a primary and perform well in PvP.
If you like to PvP as a BM, do it. Yes, you’ll see a whole lot of MM PvP hunters, but oes that mean that spec is best for you? No, no it does not. Should you try it? Probably, sure. Should you spec something just because your guildie, your buddie, or some slack-jawed yokel tells you to?
Well? Of course not!
Now, just because all the trees are viable, does not mean that you can place your talent point willy-nilly all over your screen. 0/20/41 is a experienced-blessed PvP spec, 5/5/41 is not.
While there may not be Right or Wrong when it comes to talent trees, there most certainly are Good and Bad when it comes to talent builds.
For the Pie on 31 Jan 2008 at 12:14 pm #
The key to the BM build is sustained mass quantities of DPS. Is it going to be the best for burst damage? No, that much we know as fact. In battlegrounds, you will die, you will put out a LOT of damage. I mean it’s easy to top the damage scoreboard and still have a ton of deaths.
In most battlegrounds, the opposition ignores your pet unless they can’t find or get to you, or they are hateful or noobish. (I won’t deny going after a pet due to not being able to get to the hunter OR because the darn pet just made me mad)
I tried MM for a while, yep, burst damage extreme, monster high crits and damage. WOOT.
In the end, it wasn’t for me. It doesn’t fit my playstyle and I suspect it’s the hardest thing to overcome.
Fiordhraoi on 31 Jan 2008 at 12:19 pm #
I’ve done enough arena to get 4 pieces of arena gear now, so I have at least SOME basis for opinion. And frankly, in 2v2, I’d much rather fight a MM hunter than a BM hunter.
And basically what it comes down to is control. I can control a MM hunter. Root the hunter, sleep the pet, stay out of LOS. Cyclone the hunter, 3 sec into the cyclone start a starfire, immediately recast cyclone and immediately start another starfire, that’s 5k damage without crits.
But on a BM hunter, none of that works. The 18 seconds of “you can’t control me, oh and by the way my pet really hurts you now even if you’re out of LOS, plus he attacks fast and knockbacks your spells” is just horrible. The only way I can deal with a BM hunter is for us to CC his partner, and we can burn him down quick enough to take him out.
Sephran on 31 Jan 2008 at 12:31 pm #
I’ve grouped with some well accomplished hunters for my arena teams. Most miss BM in arenas. The one who was marks i believe.. changed his spec half way through. The difference was definitely noticeble.
As a BM he seemed to kill things faster. BM pets on drugs (bestial wrath is it?). Seem to eat clothies/healers alive in my experience.
But one thing i like about my guild.. is that we open talk out everything. Get into “heated” debates about the use of a trinket over another one :p
One thing the hunters have in common… is they find a spec that works for them.
Its the same with a mage.. frost is the ultimate pvp spec.. hands down. But I know alot of good fire mages. They just prefer fire. It suits their playstyle better.
When you find that fit.. thats the spec youll do better in.. because your happiest playing it.
When my frost mage shatter combos and drops a target from 100% to 20% in less then a second. It makes me feel great.
Vronak on 31 Jan 2008 at 1:05 pm #
Equally interesting to me is… how do you have Hobbes specced? I’ve read that I should skip Armor and add in some shadow/nature/frost resists…
Vronak and Boaregard
Riojin on 31 Jan 2008 at 3:03 pm #
Sweet i couldnt be happier with your response! I have been doing just like you BRK and have been experimenting with the 41/20/0 build as i go along, Ive noticed that i needed more survivability and so i opted for the imp monkey instead of the thick hide, ppl just dont go for my pet. It has kept me alive in close combat long enough for me to get out. I am a troll so i kept rapid killing cause my style is to pop that and berserking at the same time. it has worked for me so far and with my frost mage partner we have seen sum luck.
Again tyvm!
Deser on 31 Jan 2008 at 3:39 pm #
I believe for your last “bad” spec you meant 5/5/51, not 5/5/41.
Thats actually the spec I just changed to for arena. I really was just fuckin around with a new spec and decided to go for something I haven’t seen others using before.
5/5/51 is a VERY viable pvp. It does, however, change your roll in the match. You’re main responsibility is no longer massive damage - you are now a CC machine. The 5 pts in BM go to increasing my health and my pets health. The 5pts in MM go to Imp. Conc. Shot. The 51pts you put into surv should be concentrated in the CC’ing and Staying alive talents.
With a 5/5/51 spec you have the following CC options:
Traps: All traps will now snare. You also still have the freeze capability of ice trap. But snake trap and frost trap is where its at. You also will have shaved 6s off your recast time, increased the duration, and decreased the chance the trap will be resisted.
Imp. Conc. Shot.: Sure its only a small percent chance that it’ll stun the enemy, but from my experience it procs a lot.
Imp. Wing Clip: Crazy-OP in arena, especially if you have the S3 axe and macro your WC with raptor. The raptor strike will have a good chance to crit for upwards of 2k damage on a leather wearer. More against a clothie and even more if you have some ignore armor gear (Im sitting around 300-something). Also, WC is spammable. So say that war gets in close, you WC/raptor him but his doesn’t get rooted. Well you pop deterrence and then spam the hell outta WC til it procs.
Counterattack: 5s immobilizer after a parry…with deterrence up…its a life saver.
Wyvern Sting: 12s ranged CC? Yeah….certainly not OP….ahem…not to mention the ~1k damage it does after.
Readiness: Even as a hunter, i have to admit that in arenas, especially 2v2, readiness is OP. Normally I’ll sleep the first person that starts to rush and immediately drop a trap. They will usually blow their trinket on the sleep and then get screwed by the trap. You and your partner now only have one person to worry about - and if you were smart, its a clothie. Pop rapid fire, and whatever other trinkets you have and unload. As soon as RF is done pop readiness. If the one person left isnt dead yet, sleep the person that rushed you once more and then finish the remaining person.
Sure you won’t have 2k AP and you lose out on aimed shot and mortal shots with this spec, but you’re ability to CC both at range AND in melee, as well as being able to survive any melee class that thinks you’re an easy target is what makes it shine.
Capn John on 31 Jan 2008 at 4:06 pm #
I did 2v2 Arena for the first time ever last night and totally noobed it up. I respec’d Cuddles (my Ravager) to give him better than average resistance to Shadow & Fire, plus Avoidance for the AOE crap…but completely forgot about the BIG RED RAVAGER button
I got WTFPwnd by a Warrior in our first Arena. I was sure I’d dropped a Freeze Trap, my Shammy buddy said I did, and that I got the Warrior but he broke it straight away. He destroyed me then he & his Warlock buddy killed my Shammy friend.
Lo & behold, second match was against the very same Warlock & Warrior couple. I managed to kite the Lock a bit but was again made the Warrior’s bitch, this was after the Warlock sent me running around screaming my head off. Yup, forgot all about the BIG RED HUNTER button
Third match was against a Priest & a Rogue who elected to kill my Shammy friend first. I figure they saw him as the greater threat so he was their primary target. Then the Rogue popped Sprint and ran circles around me like he was The Flash. Show off.
Three Arena fights over in less than a minute. We spent more time waiting for the gates to open than actually fighting
Maybe tonight we might win a match…or at least kill one of them
tkc on 31 Jan 2008 at 10:15 pm #
Beastial Wrath FTW!!! I tried MM for a day or two in the BGs and didn’t like it. I seemed to run into a non-stop supply of rogues and warlocks. So I was either stun locked or feared and dotted up. This was no fun at all. So I went back to being a BM hunter (41/20/0). It is just my prefered way to fight. Pop a frost trap and stand on it. Pop a flare so you can get a jump on a stealthed toon. Fear or attempts at stun locks just don’t work. I have my Insignia of the Alliance PvP trinket and BW on a one button macro. I eat rogues and locks up. I love it when the rogues try to sprint away when I pop BW. My cat, also named Hobbes (loved the comic), has Dash3. He’ll chase the runners down for me.
Kevryn on 01 Feb 2008 at 10:22 am #
BRK, as I am still a new Hunter (59) and still learning the Class, I am curious as to your point in Aimed Shot on your build. Are you using Aimed shot as opposed to Steady in your rotation ? Most of the information I have read says Steady and Auto(mixing in Arcane or Multi) are better than using Aimed and Auto in your shot rotation due to Aimed’s mana consumption. Could you comment on this ?
Cyrusbidness on 02 Feb 2008 at 8:43 pm #
Kevryn: There are very few times when I use aimed shot at 70 in PvE. Mainly only with misdirection cast on the tank at the beginning of a fight.
IMO: Its main purpose in BRK’s 41/20/0 build is to get you into Mortal shots. As you have read, SS is the way to go in your rotation. I happened to notice today that my highest SS crit is only 200ish lower than my highest Aimed Shot 1550ish vs 1750ish using a 41/20 PvE build.
Cyrusbidness and Sleestak (or Hamlet)