Sometime, You’ve Got To Mix It Up
Horde are blockading the Tower Point-Ice Blood pass! If Alliance tries to trickle in to IB, they get destroyed. If Alliance tries to take Galv first, Horde just runs in behind us and massacres us. The solution is for the Alliance to assemble right before the horde defense and go in with overwhelming numbers.
Alliance never does this.
We either trickle in, go half IB half galv, or all galv, and in all cases get hammered back to Defense. At which point the Horde can’t “win” either, but they’ll get all the towers and bunkers and win via attrition.
And we hate that.
Our personal favorite solution at this juncture is to do the unthinkable and take SH. Yes, the one thing that is supposedly inviolate Alliance strategy, we violate it. If we take SH when the horde is holding that pass between IB and TP, they all rez back at IB and cause a pandemonium, usually breaking the hold at IB. We may win, Horde may win, but at least it’s not a 60 minute turtle.
So we took SH with help. The Alliance D saw they had nobody left to kill and came forward to SH. We wiped the Horde back to SH, where their D at IB smashed us back. Gotta love the killing fields in the middle of the map. It was chaotic enough that a small contingent of Alliance were able to sneak through to Frostwolf and take the graveyard.
And when the Horde saw that, they all collapsed back to FW, the Alliance O and D kept pouring in, shoved them off of FW, out of their Aid Station, and back to their starting tunnel. It took a while, but it felt WONDERFUL to finally defeat that bloody Horde D at TP-IB.
/whew
Sometimes, winning really is the only thing.
corwyn on 25 Feb 2008 at 9:16 am #
The first thing any losing general should do is consult the book of inviolate strategies, and start breaking them. Those are by definition the things that the opponent is not expecting. And thus the best opportunities for surprise.
Don’t expect to keep working for long though.
Thank You Kindly.
Ismi on 25 Feb 2008 at 9:22 am #
Have you realised how you have turned into PvP-lovin’-I’m-so-cool BRK lately? I am disappointed
Capn John on 25 Feb 2008 at 9:44 am #
Ismi, any Hunter worth their hide can Kite Mobs and NPCs all over the map. And it’s all too easy to stand back and pew-pew-pew into a Mob while your Pet tears its face off and holds its attention, and drop a Freeze Trap when a nearby Mob aggros onto you, and Feign Death when you pick up a third then toss off a Mend Pet, and so on. Fighting Mobs and NPCs is easy and not a true test of a Hunter’s skill, and this is coming from a Hunter who earned Rhok’delar, back when that meant something.
Kiting players in a battlefield, when their mates can see what you’re doing and come to their aid, that’s a whole different ballgame. When all things are equal, I personally think PvP is a very good indication of just how well you can play your class. Fighting Mobs which predictably do the same thing, over & over & over again, that’s akin to driving your VW Beetle down to the corner store for a carton of milk and a paper; fighting other players who force you to do more than just stand there and pew-pew-pew, now we’re talking high performance! This is Nigel Mansell and Ayrton Senna at Silverstone! (Aah, for the good old days.) In PvP you know you’re alive…and dead, and alive again! And dead again!
BRK has a done a lot of how to be a better PvE Hunter stories (and a lot of Airman Howell stories). Now it’s time for some BRK, in your face, PvP stories. If you’re not a fan of PvP, that’s ok. There will be more PvE to come…there better be more Airman Howell, too
Pyrius on 25 Feb 2008 at 9:51 am #
I hate when we have too many people pull back to FW when they see the relief hut taken. Without a rez, it usually only takes a few.
Take heart though BRK. Being in your battlegroup, I can tell you that there are still plenty of morons on the Horde side that scream that zerg is the only way to win.
When I get my way, it goes down like this:
1. A strong defense at IBGY. We crush you as you futilely try to take it.
2. A decent offense that takes your first couple tours, then starts farming HKs off your defense.
3. We take both mines to speed up your demise. I’m not taking the high road to take SPGY. I’m taking your mine.
4. You all freak out, all but abandon defense, and zerg at IBGY. We still hold you, our offense overruns your inner towers.
5. Big honor credit for Horde, zero for alliance.
Please stop tipping off your buddies to how to win AV. I’m trying to save up for some more honor PvP gear. Besides, you’ve enjoy your super defensible fortress (SPGY and the bridge) and easily retaken towers (impossible for a ranged class to retake a Horde tower) for long enough.
Uzivni on 25 Feb 2008 at 9:56 am #
This reminds me of when my 59 warrior was in AV (horde side though) and it was looking like it’d be a win, even if by attrition. Someone decided to take snowfall for the horde (I still don’t know why), and have ALL the alliance spawn on top of the Horde offense.
Needless to say, 30ish allies (some were obviously AFK, or dead, or wandering around aimlessly) just ripped through the horde front of about 20 (with 10 on defense and 10 MIA) and smashed their way all the way to Drek (they didn’t kill Drek, due to horde running out of reinforcements before Drek died, but they were close.)
And, of course, because snowfall was taken, the Horde were spawning there, and had either a long run to O or to D, which of course separated the groupings even more than just dying at different times did, so there was complete chaos and any effort made to stop the Allies just met with even more scattering of the Horde side.
Maybe violating the inviolate should be left to the Alliance
Bellwether on 25 Feb 2008 at 10:28 am #
I love PvP stories. Mmm, delicious.
For the Pie on 25 Feb 2008 at 11:03 am #
To be honest, I’d rather the O not worry about SH and push on to SP, but alas…It would also require defense hold IB until the O got SP locked down.
I’ve been on a few good premades where we had a good O and a good D and 20 mins later we left with 600 honor and they got none other than HK.
3 hunters a lock and a couple melee can lock down the chokepoint.
A couple locks or a warrior or two can decimate the O at Galv. Sadly, no one seems to understand/care in Emberstorm Horde side.
I have given up on AV unless it’s the daily or I can get a good premade. It’s just not worth the stress.
Judezz on 25 Feb 2008 at 11:05 am #
Also don’t forget the Senna vs Prost wars also around that same time frame.
Senna….I miss him.
Papaoomowmow on 25 Feb 2008 at 11:16 am #
Alliance AV strategies. There is one that is consistently devastating to most horde teams. I’m horde so I really shouldn’t say this….in fact I won’t say this….lol…. lemme just say the most impressive Alliance strategy, in my opinion, involves well times counterattacks at certain critical spots. Just seems to absolutely baffle most horde teams when it happens.
It’s rare….very rare… but organized horde O does best when they send a few to engagethe D at SP and then the rest wait a moment and ride en masse right past the SP battle straight to the aid station. Most of them will make it. Very important, of course, to avoid NPC aggro. And to heavily guard the sucker until it turns…and then guard it some more (while the others go for the bunkers)
If the horde has very little, if any D….all too common….and tries to purely race and kill Vann first….and stops to take SP…in my experience we lose 9 out of 10. Slow or Quick, the best D wins.
Bloodarrow on 25 Feb 2008 at 11:34 am #
I love playing defensive sweeper when I’m feeling lazy in AV. With a number of nice spots to hide, perfectly placed frost traps, strategic flares, and a raptor ready to Intimidate/BR, that doesn’t work in our Battle group.
Nothing better than stopping the Alli (mounted) in range of tower archers. Easy-mode HK. 2 run by, then kill one guy, and track down the other. Usually in the mines or near FWgy. Wingclip and Intimidate near NPCs, and your toast. Pallies can’t even live through that. Rogues get serpent stings right off the bat. Escape that!
For waiting 1 hour to get in, Horde isn’t going to give you any caps. We want all 500+ honor points.
Cheers, see you on the fields of battle. I’ll be the hunter running you down, dashing for FW!
Vanidar on 25 Feb 2008 at 11:54 am #
That story reminds me of the good days of AV. Back before they removed all the NPC’s, back when summoning the elementals meant something and was worth doing, and back when a single AV match took upwards of 4-6 hours or longer to complete.
I really miss those days. It was more like a real battle instead of what we have now - Quick lets run to the enemy base and kill their leader before they do that to us! (wave at the horde as you ride by them, and they wave back)
It’s just not the same…
Orshade on 25 Feb 2008 at 12:11 pm #
If you’re going for honor, he war of attrition isn’t what you want. Otherwise it can be pretty fun, I’m horde so when this happens it’s in my favor. I usually avoid being in he D zerg and I’m one of those people behind your lines stealing your bunkers. :]
Duelist (or glad) To be Orshade
Orc Rogue
Ashuna on 25 Feb 2008 at 12:24 pm #
The key to fighting a turtle is turtle. Fight fire with fire so to speak. I mean if it is a turtle then the BG is going to go on for an inordinate amount of time anyways.
Defend Belinda. Retake SHGY. Use Farsight or mind vision. Wait for them to flinch. When they do, overwhelm them.
Also, still send stealth cappers to disrupt them.
In a premade the timing of stealth GY caps can be devastating to Horde. (Or alliance for that matter) Have 2 sets of stealthers hit FWGY and FWRH at the same time (many times its just the NPC guards), once both sets of guards are dead, coordinate and cap at exactly the same time. At which point the blockade at IBGY collectively craps their pants and heads south dividing their force. This is the time for the entire offense to push IBGY.
This was the strat we used in a PuG AV. There are SS’ on my blog. We finished 658 (I think ) to 0, on a non-av weekend. It was wonderful.
I mean, a turtle sucks like snail drag racing anyway might as well use that time to your advantage.
Algernon on 25 Feb 2008 at 1:15 pm #
Nice job, just so that people don’t think that taking SH is a good idea all the time. You want to leave SH alone if you have IBGY or anything else further south. It is closer to IBGY than SFGY is so it’s easier to push from there than from SF if the horde are trying to block us at TP or IBGY. If we already have IBGY and you take SHGY before they have SPGY all that you are going to accomplish is making the horde res in front of you setting up for the turtle.
Sdcanyon on 25 Feb 2008 at 3:17 pm #
You are all wrong… AV should be all offense for both teams. Fastest team wins. Win fast, Lose fast = More honor
Nick S on 25 Feb 2008 at 3:49 pm #
I desperately wish that my Horde would play like you’ve described. As it is, the inevitable path of my BGs is thus:
1.) Alliance ride straight south to RH, a trivially easy objective to take.
2.) Whatever defense is in the base (never at IB) is crushed by 30 Allies and RH is taken. Horde kills Bal, takes SH.
3.) Horde rides to SP, Allies spawn at RH and take base-towers.
4.) Horde takes SP, one base-bunker.
5.) Alliance has a 5-minute dance party and starts Vann; Horde captures AS after pitched battle and starts on Vann with one Marshal still up.
6.) Vann at 50%, Drek dies. Game over.
This pattern describes about 50% of my games; variations are small and few. The change can be directly linked to the increased HP of Bal and Vann. When we could kill them in a reasonable amount of time, we won, but now it takes so long to kill Bal that we’re not at SP until both base towers are capping, and Vann just plain takes forever. We can start Vann at the same time the Alliance starts Drek, with 25 in, and be at 50% when Drek dies.
It’s almost as though the Horde in my battlegroup don’t want to win badly enough to break out of their ruts and try a different strategy.
Stoop on 25 Feb 2008 at 4:00 pm #
@Sdcanyon Some of us are trying to win, not farm honor.
@ Nick S. You wouldn’t be in the Vengeance BG would you? That sounds like the exact thing I put up with. At least if I queue up with a few of my friends and we get 1 or 2 more folks we defend RH and the towers long enough to hopefully let the offense catch up. It gives us a chance to win, whereas the normal “run North young hordling” gameplan ensures defeat.
Ironbelly-Sugars on 25 Feb 2008 at 4:05 pm #
Heh. I don’t think I have lost an AV yet BRK, since I went to my Horde Warlock….Just dropping a not to say heya and I will be back on Drenden one day. Your old Holy Paly, Ironbelly.
Val on 25 Feb 2008 at 4:08 pm #
Nick> I feel for ya, guy
I used to be amazed at how long it would take horde to kill Vann. I’d see his warning fly out over chat before we even got to Drek and think the game was over, we’d get in and demolish him and boom, we win.
I just figured that Horde had all the Healers and Tanks while Alliance (Emberstorm BGroup-side) had all the DPS. (watching alliance kill Drek is exceedingly funny.. what with him running all over the place 2shot/whirlwinding everyone)
then I found out about the whole HP situation. Oh well.
WTB 2.4?
P.S. Healer classes sitting on Bal = gg ^_^
TaintedGame on 25 Feb 2008 at 7:52 pm #
I agree with Ismi…
I have been reading this blog for a long time. I used to come here because it was nice to see someone play the PvE role well and to teach and explain as he went along. It was nice to see how he progressed from Karazhan to VR. Now all I read is PvP smack talk.
Capn John, I see you enjoy PvP but don’t discount how important (and difficult) it can be to do the PvE instances. I have been in much of the end-game and I have seen LOTS of hunters that are not even worth a raid spot. They think they are worth it because they can kite a warrior… meh, I’m not impressed by that. If you can push 1200+ dps during the majority of a raid, then you will have me /bowing.
Now this is becoming a purely PvP e-peen blog which is fairly disappointing.
yunk on 25 Feb 2008 at 8:17 pm #
Someone has been telling rampage alliance how to win. They send 30 or so to IB now, and completely skip galv. Or do what Ashuna writes and all head to the FWRH. I think I’m the only person in the whole battlegroup who has a recall trinket.
Heck the last few games alliance doesn’t even wait for towers, they just kill drek. (at least i get a little honor that way)
They of course obliterate the 5 or 6 on D because horde stopped playing D in rampage about a month ago. Why? why? /headdesk
Urg of Shattered Hand on 25 Feb 2008 at 9:00 pm #
All I gotta say is I wish that horde would even attempt to win on my server. Oh look its 10 afkavers
Rotseh on 25 Feb 2008 at 9:33 pm #
I aslo noticed this trend on BRK:
Too much PvP all of a sudden, not enough PvE.
Are you even still raiding? /wonder
I’d be more interested in reading about how you manage your pet in the Lurker and Hydross fights, what you do versus Void Reaver, and so on. Or whether you’re still going to Gruul’s or Magtheridon’s Lair, even bother with Doomwalker or any other outdoor boss.
Stuntyone on 25 Feb 2008 at 11:03 pm #
I quite enjoy the PvP Stories, not as much as i enjoy the PvE ones but enjoy them none the less I do. In fact they inspired me to take a week off tanking and go respec and do some PvP, this has not worked out too well as in the first two days of my “PvP week” I have done 5 normal instances and 1 heroic as dps. I have however managed to find the time to do a little bit of PvP in between Instances.
Back on track with this comment now: I was, like Rotseh, wondering if you are raiding at all anymore or if your guild has just hit a progress block. Just wondering it’s your character so far be it from me to tell you what you should do with it or how you should play the game
Cheers - Stuntyone
BRK on 25 Feb 2008 at 11:06 pm #
Please stand by for a nice PvE raiding post!
/simmer down, now
Khezgaan on 26 Feb 2008 at 12:01 am #
Curious that the highest killing blows are two hunters on both sides isn’t it? With a difference of 10 with the nearest other player to boot.
Xanthelei on 26 Feb 2008 at 12:20 am #
/cheer for moar PVE
I enjoy reading other’s exploits in PVP. It’s good fun, especially with a good storyteller like yourself, BRK. But a balance of PVP and PVE - like in the game itself, take note Blizzard! - is probably the best route. Doesn’t even have to be progression stuff, just helping noobs like me figure out how to prioritize itemization, especially when going into purples from blues, would be a good thing. Or maybe go off on a rant about professions, epic mounts, even the world PVP stuff (towers in the Bone Wastes? What now) would be cool.
I don’t think anyone (many) are saying no more PVP or the blog sucks, just balance it out for the two sides. /sagely nod
Rain on 26 Feb 2008 at 12:29 am #
Alliance have always been able to win by sneaking into FW GY/RH, you really don’t have it all that hard -_-
Ismi on 26 Feb 2008 at 12:40 am #
Capn John, I appreciate your kind words on the issue. However, the point wasn’t to show that I hate PvP. In fact, back in vanilla WoW, after getting me Rhok’delar and T2 gear, all I did was PvPing. I loved PvP before this new system and I still love it.
The point, most of the players-hunters or non, come down here to see BRK’s passion for PvE, US Air Force(lol?!) and cool pets. Seeing him suddenly turn into PvP addict made me post that comment which was my first on his blog. Of course, at the end of the day, this is his blog and he could do whatever he wants with it. Moreover, I thought it was only me who felt like that. Seeing more people kind of worry about this blog turning into PvP Post Office, made me post my second comment on the thread.
So, BRK thanks for confirming that there is a PvE story coming soon, but please, stay as you were before
Don’t let your uber PvP skill turn you into all-I-care-about-is-PvP since most of the players think PvE doesn’t require skills. For example, go and do Karazhan with 4 other players and then post that story to show PvE is not about gathering Tier tokens or completing dailies.
I am your fan even tho if you turn into Mr PvP BRK.
Your truly,
Ismi
Forthus on 26 Feb 2008 at 1:04 am #
Heh i like the pvp posts as well as the PvE makes for a more interesting blog although i’d love more airman Howell stories.
Don’t forget the Brktestbed either and not to mention more random
Adventures etc I.E journey to gnomelantis!
Pyrius on 26 Feb 2008 at 10:36 am #
Yunk, see sdcanyon above for why you can’t win.
Of course, he also neglects that dual zerg always favors alliance. Always. Running into FW Keep is trivial. SP is a pain in the arse with all the NPCs strolling around and even a small defensive force can defend it. Good luck trying to defend FW as a small force.