A Highly-Recommended PvP Talent Spec

BRK » 25 March 2008 » In PvP »

While we’re having some very moderate success in arenas, there are legions of more accomplished arena-hunters. What are a lot of these guys and gals bringing to the party?

A Marksman Spec. /horror!

What does MM have in abundance? Burst-damage. If one attempts to sustain this burst-DPS over a long period of time, mana-issues become extremely apparent. Marksman hunters have some of the worst mana-efficiency problems of any spec of any class anywhere. Raiding as a MM is very hard, and is in fact just about as gear-dependent as a Survivalist.

But in arenas, where the matches can be over in a matter of seconds, burst-damage can rule the world. And the 11/41/9 built is a great combination of pet-survivability, the longest ranged-attacks in the game, and burst-damage.

“I HATE SILENCING SHOT!” We hear our arena partners scream this every time we face a MM hunter. Scatter Shot stops their healing, a 30% improved Viper Sting drains their mana, and Silencing Shot stops their current spell-cast, prevents casting for three seconds, and only then they can begin to cast a heal again.

The downsides? Line of Sight is the 11/41/9 killer. As a BM hunter, Hobbes can chomp away almost anywhere the enemy runs, LoS or not. A MM hunter’s pet is wickedly nerfed, little more than an annoyance to most classes. You’ll have a Scorpid for being a nuisance to spell-casters, but that’s about the limit of its usefulness.

And if a raiding MM hunter has mana issues, a hunter in PvP gear is going to have the smallest mana-pool ever. The MM hunter had better kill his enemy quickly, for he’s not going to be able to maintain that DPS for long.

Now if you go to the arena-discussion web sites and read how the 11/41/9 hunters fare, you’ll find their tactics are heavily partner-dependent. Just like the druid-warrior team is the bomb-diggity because of how the classes work together, a MM hunter works really well with classes that can root/ensnare enemies so the MM hunter can stand still and blast away, or with classes that seem like bigger, more important targets.

As with all Marksman-based hunter specs, this is a direction hunters should consider who are on teams who focus on mana-drain strategies. If your team favors outlast-outlive types of fights, the 11/41/9 will permit you a great deal of flexibility for staying at range, dropping a Viper Sting, and then getting out of LOS while your primary mana-drainers do their thing.

As always, skill and communication are the keys to arenas. If you grab this or any other spec, you’re not going to become invincible based upon the talents-alone.

PvP | March 25, 2008

Comments

30 Responses to “A Highly-Recommended PvP Talent Spec”

Linnara on March 25th, 2008 8:07 am

Marks can certainly be an interesting way to go, especially for arena. But no points in improving ranged weapons?!? When you’re that high in the marks tree, I don’t see how the 5% damage buff cannot be taken.
Ahoni on March 25th, 2008 8:12 am

Ok, the SS is nice, but can you link to the build via Wowhead? Forgive me if I don’t remember each and every talent by the little picture thingy.
BRK on March 25th, 2008 8:29 am

Linked.
Cynddl on March 25th, 2008 8:30 am

Linnara, as BRK was saying, it’s all about the Burst. The improved Barrage talents are the biggest bursting talents a hunter can grab. RWS is great an wonderful for a raiding hunter who is kicking out sustained damage, but when you need big numbers fast, RWS isn’t the ticket, so the Barrages are the way to go.

You’ll know what we’re talking about when you see your one shot crit 3 targets for 2600-3k.

Ahoni, here’s a link:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=cVbRzZVVVoEzhzstch0h

BRK, I’d like to make one correction to your talents. Instead of going 3/3 into Entrapment, go 3/3 into Imp. WC. It’s much more reliable, because you can spam it and almost guarantee a proc, whereas Entrapment just seems to work only when it’s NOT dire.
megan on March 25th, 2008 8:39 am

11/4x/x is a solid build, and is built on the assumption that you’ll be facing smart teams who know how to get your pet into a corner or pillar LOS it away from your healers and kill it. The 11 points in BM help give it some more HP and move speed, but the real power comes from being able to get out of combat yourself and spend less time rezzing it back.

If you find yourself NOT facing competition that goes to off your pet (idiots), then feel free to put more points into strictly MM/SV (0/4x/1x), Deterence is a huge (especially in 5’s) and saves your healers a ton of mana if the other side decide to train you.
A Highly-Recommended PvP Talent Spec | Specs on March 25th, 2008 8:53 am

[...] Kristin wrote an interesting post today onHere’s a quick excerptAs with all Marksman-based hunter specs, this is a direction hunters should consider who are on teams who focus on mana-drain strategies. If your team favors outlast-outlive types of fights, the 11/41/9 will permit you a great deal of … [...]
Mellon on March 25th, 2008 9:00 am

Yes BRK you finally saw the light! hehehe

i hit 1865 this week in 2v2 with my druid partner with this spec. Only trouble you have is vs double dps (mage/rogue, rogue/rogue) otherwise you will outlast any other healer/dps combo.
Valjéan on March 25th, 2008 9:31 am

BRK, dare I ask it…

Have you respec’d and tried this build?

If so, what did you think?
For the Pie on March 25th, 2008 9:38 am

Last night, my 3 (just give me some points and have fun) team, went 6-4. One match we faced a hunter and two warriors, in the UC arena. The hunter sent his pet in to attack me, I LOS’d his pet behind the coffin thing and my pet and I just killed it, my warrior teammate charged in and the three other team members ATTACKED him! leaving the healer to heal him and me to stand at ranged and pew pew.
Errrr on March 25th, 2008 10:05 am

“You’ll have a Scorpid for being a nuisance to spell-casters, but that’s about the limit of its usefulness.”
The point of having a Scorpid is for the extra poison stacks. These make it harder for a Paladin/Druid to dispel your viper sting.

“The MM hunter had better kill his enemy quickly, for he’s not going to be able to maintain that DPS for long.”
Most MM hunters are part of drain teams; they outlast their opponents.
Nick on March 25th, 2008 10:08 am

maybe it’s just cuz i’m a mage, but i’m MUCH more afraid of BM hunters. silencing shot takes away significantly fewer casts than a big scary pet increasing my frostbolt cast time to 15 seconds.

improved viper sting is nasty, though. a mage’s mana is infinitely more important than his health bar. a Flash of Light crit will refill my health… nothing’s getting that mana back once it’s gone.
Luketheduke on March 25th, 2008 10:09 am

I started my hunter a couple months before TBC came out. I leveled with BM, I have logged countless hours with BM, and I just don’t like MM. Sure, you get the huge burst damage, but I just can’t get into it for some reason. I suppose you know the feeling!
BM forever in my book…and honestly, for arenas, it really doesn’t suck.
BMPvPHunter on March 25th, 2008 10:15 am

BRK,

Grats on finding(?) the Megatf arena spec. Seriously though, this spec has little if anything to do with burst damage. It is geared around 1 thing and 1 thing only…mana drain. The PvP hunter is now reduced to finding a druid (or possibly Disc Priest if you can’t) and play the drain game. Grab your two S1 one-handers (I’m getting the fist weapons for cool factor) and get +30 intellect enchants on them to further win the mana war.

You know that arena is seriously messed up for a hunter when, as a DPS class, almost all of the top arena hunters get +intellect enchants on their weapons (Yes they still get +35 Agil. on the S3 2h but keep the two S1s out much more).

I tried the spec and frankly cannot get used to MM fighting, only had a Healadin to team with (poor buggers get no love either) and stubbornly fight on as 41/20/0 and get happy when my head bobs above the 1650 ratings.

GL….love the blog.
For the Pie on March 25th, 2008 10:43 am

@LuketheDuke

BM forever is a nice thought, but remember you can’t use a hammer to do every job. (although when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail….)

In some cases, each of the 3 specs and muliple hybrids you can get out of them works better than the others.
shifttusk on March 25th, 2008 11:40 am

Yea some focus should be put on the entire purpose of this build. Its all about the viper sting.

And keeping the scorpid alive to hide it if needed. Key points are:

1) Bestial swiftness -> pet stays on druids and PoJ healadins.

2) Imp Rez Pet -> Warrior rage dumps your scorpid scatter trap him and rez your pet in 4 secs (in combat megs :P)

3) Multishot. You run around with viper up on healers and scattering your non dps target and keeping them effectivly out of the game. unload multishots at +12%dmg +12%crit and far higher AP than a BM hunter for nice big chunks of you have to heal this now. Its not “burst” its reliable big numbers.

Keep a set of +30intel 1handers and also your +35agil 2hander and run viper full time. If you face burst teams you pop on your 2h and either hawk or monkey depending on their compo. Its a very good build. Its not a “burst build”. Its a drain spec with some awesome on tap multishot mayhem.

Another key thing for this spec is to use arcane as a dispel not a dps shot. Save it for renews PoM’s and Bops.
Dagashai on March 25th, 2008 11:41 am

Ima seriously thinking about switching to something like this for Mabd. Entrapment is very useful in 5v5’s, but the imp wing clip is slightly more favored in 2v2 and 3v3.

As for RWS… the only thing you have to swap out for it would be, more or less, imp stings. Personally, as much as I love imp viper sting, I’m thinking seriously about dumping it in the next build… with focus fire adding another 2%, I think I could really max my burst dps.. considering how low in the arena brackets Ive been, drain tactics haven’t really been working that well for me… more pew pew plz!

In defense of MM vs BM… MM really, really, really is the burst damage class. BM people dont accept this… but it’s true. A BM can burn down anything, by him or herself, if given the chance (excepting a resto shammy or paladin…) but the name of the game in arena is teamwork… and that 4 sec combo, aimed shot, multi shot, auto shot and arcane shot can be paired with anyone to bring down almost anything before the other side can react. Over 15 seconds, BM does more damage. You might not have that 15 seconds… and MM has more tricks to stop healz… btw… my MS are critting for 2200 now. The crit % is ~45%. Meanwhile your 15% crit pet is attacking a 400 resil target and FI and frenzy AREN’T proccing for ya.

Still, nothing cuts through cloth like a BM.

Last thought… what, no praise for bestial swiftness? My god, I think I now miss that more than I ever missed hawk eye… its the reason to go a full 11 in BM tree, instead of just 7 for the imp rez pet. Recognize, foolz!
Jagermaster on March 25th, 2008 11:53 am

i want a link to the BRK semi-approved BM Hunter Arena/BG spec. i am currently the Kara BM Hunter spec and as it does work in Arena/BG’s i know i need to move a few points over for my off nights. i would love to see this spec or a couple of specs that might work.

thank you

Jagermaster & Kammerjäger
Papaoomowmow on March 25th, 2008 12:27 pm

Patch 2.4 out. Of note…..reslience will now also aid in mana drain resitance.
Xanthelei on March 25th, 2008 12:29 pm

While all the arena specs are useful when starting out in PVP, I would love to see something that isn’t built around Arena. Arena, world, and BG PVP are all very different beasts, and call for different things from the Hunter. I’m trying to find a spec that both works for BGs while I gear up and will still allow me to raid Kara/ZA if given the chance. Current spec isn’t that, I’m very sure, but nothing’s been announced for ZA next week and all I really need out of Kara now is T4 stuff.

I would love to see some BG love, if there’s no more PVE or PVP and PVE stuff in the wings. I don’t mind all the arena info, I’m just not there yet and there isn’t much info out there about BGs. Everyone just assumes you’re jumping right into Arena to get murdered while you gear. (Wha?)

I will comments on the spec itself to those who know something about Arena, however.
For the Pie on March 25th, 2008 1:01 pm

BG’s pretty much any build you want to come up with, and play well can work. I have two sets of gear I swap out when I run into BG’s for the daily mostly.

I swap my RAP/Hit set for 4/5 S1 (minus helm) and my HP jumps around 1200 (mostly because I still haven’t gemmed/enchanted it for more stam) My hit doesn’t fall too much because I have a lot of hit in the other pieces/rings etc.

I can release a lot of damage with my raid spec, does it waste quick shots? yeah. Would it be better for more Health or armor? yeah.

If I were milking BG’s for honor I would respecc, but since we are raiding, I keep my raiding spec and swap gear.
Dysexlai-Drenden on March 25th, 2008 3:39 pm

I have to ask, why no improved concussion/concussion barrage? The dazing effect always seems to proc just when I need it and seems to be worth the talent points. Also, improved WC has worked wonders over the chance to snare with traps so I was surprised you chose a few talents you did.
Seanguy on March 25th, 2008 4:07 pm

Dear BRK,

I would tend to think that something along the lines of (11/48/2) would be better…

Something like…

http://www.wow-tools.org/talent-calculator/Hunter/0520120100000000000004440041144113052135100200000000000000000000

And then, when Lich King comes out, have the additional 10 points thrown towards filling out the one point in Hawk Eye to 3/3, Savage Strikes 2/2, Imp. Wing Clip 3/3, Clever Traps 2/2 and the last 2 points into Thick Hide to finish off 3/3.
Merckx on March 26th, 2008 10:45 am

@Seanguy

Your build is to all over the place. You’re trying to do to many things with it. You need to focus to max your points.

@Dysexlai-Drenden

concussion barrage is a waist of points, avoid it. As for improved concussion it’s a gamble. It’s great in BGs and low brackets but the higher you go, efficiency becomes more desirable. In the longer fights against a healer heavy outlast team you really need it. For more stuns get a boar, I can’t say that enough.

When I first switch from BM to MM it took a long time to get use to it. Get ready to feel like your feared the whole match. Rogues become a much bigger pain in the ass as well. In the end it’s worth it if you plan on doing arena. Just give the build some time to get use to it and focus on shutting down multiple caster and healers at once and you’ll start to love it.
Horko on March 27th, 2008 7:47 am

Hmmmm. I’m still leery of the MM builds. I’ve considered it, but I still greatly prefer BM for BGs, and that’s where I spend most of my time if I’m pvping.

Definite upside to an MM build for arenas though.
Oma on March 27th, 2008 10:27 am

Oh yes please….. I would also like to hear from those that do not do arenas yet, but have good success in BG’s…and their spec…. Im not a raiding toon, so don’t have the advantage of kara gear, etc….so need to use my PVP opportunites as a chance to improve my level 70 hunter’s gear…
Eric on March 27th, 2008 10:47 am

Some of you need to read the website Arena Junkies (Google it). It shows the birth place of that MM spec. And unless you can muster 2300+ rating in all 3 brackets, you can’t argue with the build Megatf designed.

It’s an arena spec. Don’t expect to out dps an MM in raids with this spec. It’s all about draining, and outlasting your opponent in PVP. That’s why the 5% ranged damage wasn’t taken, other points needed to go elsewhere.

As for the mana, Megatf (and other high end hunters using this spec) use dual 1 handed weapons enchanted with +30 int each. This makes for insane mana regen w/ aspect of the viper (which you should always have on in arenas, not hawk). Even a smart idea for raiding since you can change weapons mid-fight if you’re low on mana.

Oh and Silencing shot is awesome in arenas because it’s instant and only has a 20 second cooldown.
Mackenzie on March 27th, 2008 6:19 pm

With 2.4’s changes to mana regen (favoring spirit over int), are MM’s still going with dual 1h with +30 int in arena?

Also, has 2.4’s change to resilience taken the bite out of Viper Sting and the MM hunter’s drain strat?
learning to cast spells on April 5th, 2008 9:39 am

Use your Greater Heal when you are healing one target that will take a lot of damage and will continue to do so for, at least, the next couple of seconds. If your target is not taking damage at a constant rate, be sure to cancel your Greater Heal halfway through if your target is still topped off, or nearly so. Then start casting your heal again. This is the case for most tanks, so spam your Greater Heal if you are healing your main tank.
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