Holding Pattern
“Dear BRK, you need to write about the mana-issues hunters are having! Everybody”
Well, we cannot write about an issue we haven’t experienced yet. Yes, you guessed it, we still haven’t run MrT yet.
Our scheduled group was delayed, and after 90 minutes of standing around, we gave up and decided to watch TV with Mrs BRK. History Channel, Food Network, Military Channel, Discovery, all in beautiful HD. That’s what we’re talking about.
If you want some insight into Gordon Ramsay, we’re your source today.
Since the patch has come out, we’ve done some daily quests, that’s it outside of two AVs. No instances, no arenas, nada. Tonight we’ll see what happens.
Kinda hard to write about huntering when we’re not doing any huntering.
Tell ya this, though. DrMooPhD, our wind serpent, had a much easier time doing those new daily quests than Hobbes did. Much easier, by a long shot. He didn’t die once, and hardly ever lost more than a third of his health.
We know that Boars and Charge got a some secret nerfage in 2.4 and now we’re wondering if cats got a piece of that pie, too.
jumb on 28 Mar 2008 at 7:42 am #
I fucking love his show! The american one is so much better than the pommy one.
Are all americans really that arrogant and not in touch with reality?
Benellus on 28 Mar 2008 at 7:44 am #
Whoa now. What’s the secret nerfage? Frank will NOT be happy. He’s been with me since RFK and was leveled the original way
Going to research this, any insight will be greatly appreciated.
Luketheduke on 28 Mar 2008 at 7:56 am #
@Benellus—Apparently the threat generation from the charge was nerfed quite drastically. I roll with a ravager so I can’t say, but I love me kit kat too, if they got stealth nerfed I will be really pissed. Almost as pissed as when they nerfed the Windserpent.
Platy on 28 Mar 2008 at 7:59 am #
Well maybe the mobs have highish armor? The Wind Serpent will do more DPS than the cat anyway … and its lead gets better as the armor of the mob rises. Couple that with getting in a ranged first attack this could account for the difference.
Sonvar on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:01 am #
Still not sure how you bungled it up doing those new dailies that Hobbes was dying. I did not do anything different with those mobs then I do with other ones and my kitty didn’t die once.
For the Pie on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:01 am #
I know on the new isle, that a lot of the mobs do mana drains, that may be part of the problem.
Telrunya & Sanders(baelgun server) on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:06 am #
Did the new daily’s and I ran with my cat(humar). He didn’t die once either. He was taking 2 to 3 mobs on at a time with no problems. I did notice that he didn’t seem to hold aggro as well. I know you mentioned that on a previous post. I haven’t run Mr T yet so can’t voice in on the mana issues.
Have a great weekend everyone and maybe you all get phat loot.
Corbella on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:13 am #
Seriously, what is up with the mana? (Note: I am not on the Isle and am having problems). Since the patch, I have had problems is AV and the Shimmering Flats, and the Barrens. These are places where I have and should be killing with gleeful abandon.
I could chain mobs for hours, virtually ignoring that stupid bar, now I have to sit and eat like some Paladin or something- Mephesto likes to bite, not watch me drink. Why blizzard, why have you taken our mana away!
Cauchy on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:16 am #
Their are a couple of ideas on what happened to boars: they changed the coefficient for Charge causing it to generate less threat or they changed the attack sequence so that we are seeing Charge, attack, Growl, attack, Gore instead of Charge, Growl, Gore, attack. The latter is how things worked before the patch and Growl benefited from the AP boost of Charge and the boar could generate 4,000+ threat on initial attack. People are now reporting initial threat of around 1,200 on boars. Even if Omen or other threat meters are still shaking things out and the numbers aren’t spot on, hunters are definitely pulling mobs off the boar after two or three shots, so something changed.
The mana issues are related to the change in how mana is regenerated when one has not cast for at least 5 seconds, the so called 5 second rule. It used to be that the formula had a static +35 or so term. The new formula does not have this static term and so classes that do not stack spirit and int have basically lost around 27 mana regen from the new formula when you take into account the average spirit and int for a level 70 of that class. This has no impact on boss fights as hunters, warlocks, shaman, etc are typically never going 5 seconds without casting and actually the new formula will probably give higher mana regen when one is 25 man raid buffed. The place where hunters will really notice it is grinding and low level hunters without Viper will be drinking almost every other fight.
This is what I’ve gleaned from the forums and I’ve experienced both issues personally. Babe just isn’t the tank he used to be. /cry
Grimmtooth on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:22 am #
I’ve noticed the cat issues, too, primarily that it seems impossible for my kitty to hold aggro now without me seriously throttling back my damage output. I hadn’t considered that Charge might have been nerfed, but that sure would explain a lot.
It’s hard to tell for sure given that our primary aggro monitoring software is undergoing more changes than a Latin American Constitution.
Rotseh on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:27 am #
Here is a copy of a post by a Priest with some insight on the Hunter WoW forum:
0. What Happened to your Regen & What you can Do | 03/27/2008 03:11:58 PM PDT
Hello Hunters!
I’m hopping over here from the Priest forums where I typically reside. In my post, The Complete Guide to Mana Regen (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=5284854824&sid=1) which deals with the new 2.4 changes mostly as they relate to Priests, the topic of Hunters was brought up on page 3. After surfing this forum for a bit and seeing some questions about what happened to your mana regen after the patch, I figured I’d hop over here and give you a little insight and a few tips on what you can do to help your situation
So What Happened??
Pre-patch Hunters relied quite a bit on the additional mp5 given from their old Spirit-based regen equation. The old Hunter equation looked like this:
mp5 = 2.5 * (Spirit / 5) + 37.5
Because of the relatively low values of Spirit that Hunters have, that 37.5 had a much greater effect for them than the extra mp5 given to other mana using classes. For example, an unbuffed Hunter without any extra Spirit from gear would typically have ~85 Spirit (depending on race) while not casting. There was no reason for a Hunter to stack Spirit, so most would roll with base levels.
In pre-patch, a Hunter with 85 Spirit would get 80mp5 while not casting. Post patch, however, the Intellect a Hunter would need to see the same total result would be:
0.046635 * sqrt(Int) * 85 Spirit = 80mp5
Int = 407.3
A Hunter would now need over 400 Intellect to get the same OOC mp5 as before. Considering the standard unbuffed Hunter wouldn’t even have 300 Intellect after gear was added in, obtaining over 400 Intellect even with buffs is right out. With more realistic levels of Intellect (say 225), a Hunter would have 20mp5 OOC *less* than they used to. It’s not a big number, but it adds up over time, and would be similar to losing 1-2 pieces of gear that were completely devoted to mana regen. It gets much, much worse for lower level Hunters as the old mana regen equation scales down in level much, much better than the new one.
That is the bottom line as to why Hunters in general are seeing worse mana regen than they used to.
Ouch, That Sucks…So Help Me Out Here!
There is some good news, however. While the typical unbuffed Hunter would see a nerf to their mana regen, if you toss nothing but a single Divine Spirit onto a Hunter, the results change dramatically. A Hunter with 135 Spirit would only need:
0.046635 * sqrt(Int) * 135 Spirit = 105mp5
Int = 278
That level of Intellect is easily obtainable through buffs for the average Hunter.
The bottom line is, post-patch a Hunter will probably see a nerf to regen levels unless they are grouping with a DS specced Priest or using food and pots that raise Spirit instead of other stats.
That’s why this change is not significant to raiding Hunters, who tend to run with lots of buffs from other classes that compensate for it (Divine Spirit, Gift of the Wild, Arcane Brilliance, and Blessing of Kings all help bring things back to normal and sometimes break the barrier that turns the change into a buff instead of a nerf).
What About Me Though — I Don’t Raid?!
There is good news in the future. This situation will fix itself. It may suck now, but when WotLK releases and Hunters gain 10 more levels, there is a very good chance that simple base stat progression will compensate for the lack of the extra 37.5mp5.
Remember, as Spirit and Intellect go up, they will eventually break a barrier that makes the new mana regen change stop being a nerf and turns it into a buff instead.
I Can’t Wait That Long!!!
What I would suggest for Hunters to do now if they want a simple solution to this problem is request that Blizzard hotfix their mana regen equation. Don’t ask for the old formula back. Eventually, stat progression will cause the new formula to surpass the old formula all the time. Simply ask for a simple correction to even things out until the expansion.
Off the top of my head I would say that adding 1 mp5 for every 4 points of Spirit the hunter has below 125 and adding 1 mp5 for every 10 points of Intellect the Hunter has below 300 would be the easiest solution and the most likely to bring Hunters back to similar levels of regen they previously had. This solution could easily scale down with level to help compensate for all lost mana regen.
Unfortunately, if Blizzard thinks that your mana regen is fine after the patch, then they probably won’t do anything to level you back out. Good luck!
Hopefully my post was insightful and gave you some direction to focus your complaints and suggestions.
=D
yunk on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:28 am #
Ramsey rocks. I’ve watched almost all his shows, and read his autobiography. What a life. I have a sibling with the same problem as his brother and it’s really challenged me to be better, I can’t believe his patience.
As a half Sicilian I am rather embarrassed that every Italian owner that is on Kitchen Nightmares is a hothead. Even the other day there was one on BBC of an Italian who owned a restaurant in Wales. I watch those and think “we’re not all like that!” but secretly feel like I’m watching my own family on tv!
Messyah on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:38 am #
I ran a test with my Level 59 hunter last night, who by the way is BM/MM. I put Kermit (my boar) on a mob in Hellfire last night and did nothing but normal shots. No arcane, no serpent sting, no traps, nada. Well, after 3, count’em 3 crits on normal shots, I pulled aggro. I popped Intimidation, my boar refocused and growled aggro back, I waited a few moments and after my next normal shot, I pulled aggro once again. WTF…???
I then ran a second test. I put Kermit on a mob, popped Bestial Wrath and did NOTHING. I let my boar do all the work. As soon as I popped Mend Pet, the mob came after me. ZOMG WTF?
They are definitely broken!
acedanger on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:46 am #
For a little light reading…here are some forum links regarding the mana regen issue
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=5591099586&sid=1
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=5591050109&sid=1
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=5591020278&sid=1
Ahoni on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:49 am #
Mana Regen: What does spirit have to do with Hunter’s mana regen? We regen mana by drinking or using a mana pot. I am NEVER out of the 5 second rule, so I can’t regen mana. The mana regen change has been a HUGE benefit to priests, mages, druids. It should have ZERO effect on hunters. We don’t regen mana thru spirit and the 5 second rule. How could we, we are casting a Steady Shot every 2.5 seconds or so. You need to STOP CASTING FOR 5 SECONDS for mana regen to kick in.
Now, with that being said, I found myself OOM an awful lot on the new Isle this week. I fear the biggest problem is we are fighting lots of Belfs who have a mana drain. In running a regular Mr. T I easily went through a stack of water. I wasnt often running OOM in the middle of a fight, but almost every fight I needed to drink after.
Mr. T: Love the new instance. Haven’t run it heroic yet, on any of my 70s, but the reg version was fun. A little challenging with some of the pulls, but mostly just breezy fun. The first two bosses are pretty easy. The third is tons of fun, no agro table to speak of, almost like a 5v7 arena match. Kael is pretty easy, just kill the phoenix, kill the egg (or phoenix respawns) and then kill him. Don’t touch the ground or the balls!
Benellus on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:51 am #
Well the concern I have is are they broken? or are they “fixed”? I’ve been so reliant on Frank for so long I’ve stopped really paying attention to the other pets.
So what’s the best bet right now to hold aggro? Serpents?
Manekk on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:56 am #
OMG is this true!?!?
great so i spent hours after hours leveling that razorfen swine up and just got him to 70 to have a grinding pettank that cant hold aggro!!!…….i havent picked him out from the stables since the patch so i havent tried him out yet, howewer i have been leveling my ghost wolf who is currently 66 and with him i could really se a diffrence too cause even if i normally did pull aggro from him (I´m 70) now i could send him to attack go out walk the real life dog,come home do the laundry, cook dinner and then pull aggro by looking at the mobs.
DAMMIT!
Róhirrim on 28 Mar 2008 at 8:59 am #
Who’s “MrT”?
cgeorgemo on 28 Mar 2008 at 9:03 am #
I think it’s growl that they broke not charge.
If you turn on spell casting under filters for self in the new combat log you will see that the sequence is Charge>Growl>Attack>Gore same as it was before.
But the big threat spike isn’t happening with the growl like it used to.
If you turn off growl you will see that the first melee attack that the boar does after charge does get an AP boost compared to the following ones.
The reason I think that growl is broken is that my cat had just as much trouble holding aggro and generating threat as my boar.
It is more noticeable with a boar since the huge threat spike isn’t happening anymore but both my pets generated much less threat than normal while I was generating about as much as I ever do.
Guy on 28 Mar 2008 at 9:07 am #
oh man… how can you NOT see the mana problem?
@Cauchy
Thanks for the explination, this totally makes sense with what I’m seeing.
I’m not having problems so much with boss fights, but on trash and farming it’s reCOCKulous.
imo, it’s bad enough to warrent another buff to aotv.
dorgol on 28 Mar 2008 at 9:10 am #
The new Isle is a pain on mana users. Try being a Holy Paladin and getting two adds… they cast that Mana Tap so often, I’m OOM midfight.
At least you hunters are at range!
ailtia on 28 Mar 2008 at 9:23 am #
I asked the question myself on the last few days. Who is MrT. Is he a new boss mob…some Night Elf Mohawk? Nope…I found out yesterday MrT is the abriviations for Magisters Terrace. A new instance in the 2.4 patch.
I run a cat. I too am having some issue with it keeping aggro…not much…but some. I will live with it…Just have to rearrange my shots. Instead of a stead shot every other auto shot…its stead shot every 3 auto shots.
on the mana issue I really have not seen anything on that…mainly because I have only been questing the the new zone and the damn freaking @#$%^^& blood elfs really drain my mana.
Pike on 28 Mar 2008 at 9:37 am #
I always pull aggro from my pets anyway >.> so I haven’t noticed that, but I did notice the mana thing in a Heroic Mech run last night. I ended up having to use Viper a few times, and that always makes me a sad lil’ panda… it used to be after a pull I’d still have quite a bit of mana left, now after a pull I’m down about 50%.
Though I don’t know if it’s that I’m using mana as fast, it’s just that I can’t regen it so fast. So I’m still down quite a bit of mana by the time the next pull comes around (rather than being at full mana again)
Ralowae on 28 Mar 2008 at 9:37 am #
BlackTooth (Humar) and I haven’t had any significant issues running the same old dailies we always did before the patch. I have noticed pulling agro is easier fighting the demons for the new dailies in hellfire, but I think they are higher armor mobs. Cat gets less agro from physical damage, but arcane and serpent sting are doing the same as always.
Mana doesn’t seem to be any different on boss fights, my guild hit kara last night and nothing felt different. I am seeing issues on the island, but its just all those belfs with their greedy little mana drain.
Traz on 28 Mar 2008 at 9:40 am #
The mana thing is crazy.
Went to the new island on Wednesday, killed a few of the new mobs for fun and found that I was OOM!! I’m never normally OOM except on really long fights…
They need to fix this quick. If I wanted to sit drinking for ages I’d go and play with my moonkin…. ^^
Avaric on 28 Mar 2008 at 9:41 am #
So far I have not run out of mana on the Isle and my cat hasn’t died once, though I do seem to be pulling aggro off him more readily than I used to (though I attributed that to better gear, thanks to SSC). However, playing up there with my paladin is much more difficult. I get mana drained flat in moments, and I’m reduced to flailing at the mobs with just my mace, no judgements or consecrates or anything. That’s not fun.
The Dude on 28 Mar 2008 at 9:46 am #
“Don’t touch the ground or the balls!” - Ahoni
Funny, that’s been my personal motto in real life since that year I lived at the YMCA.
corwyn on 28 Mar 2008 at 9:55 am #
MrT is (one of) the abbreviations for Magister’s Terrace, I believe.
Thank You Kindly.
Fearstalker on 28 Mar 2008 at 10:47 am #
really strange regarding the aggro.. no blue responses on it yet.
What seems really strange is that when I went to Nagrand to grind clefthoof, I didn’t pull aggro anymore than I usually do from my cat. BUT.. when I went to netherstorm to get the sunfury plans for the daily, I pulled aggro right and left. It was almost as if the aggro table was different for humanoids.
They certainly changed something, and aren’t fessing up yet. (Probably some punk dev that plays a rogue changed some numbers…)
Papaoomowmow on 28 Mar 2008 at 10:49 am #
My cat Geronimo isn’t dying but I am having to mend him frequently. And his threat generation subjectively way down.
Didn’t experience any mana problems at all on the isle, and might know why. Was running with PvP gear that had 319 resilience. 2.4 has supposedly added mana drain resistance to res. So maybe resilience might have some use in PvE too nowadays.
Locknload on 28 Mar 2008 at 10:58 am #
Don’t have mana issues either. I got around 6500mana btw. Only in pvp I sometimes run oom, but on raids boss encounters I can do some pretty nice dps without going oom. On grinding I never go oom cause I use Power Infused mushroom and mark of conquest. These give a big boost in mana regen.
And about boars charge nerf… THIS SUX BIGTIME!
Fathgar on 28 Mar 2008 at 10:59 am #
Actually I think it is not just growl that was mystery “fixed”. I was running with a pally tank and he would use his captain america shield and I would have to pull a mob off of his pull. Now that would be no sweat considering I use the max Arcane / Distracting shot and I would pull him right off. But last night I had to wait for my second arcane AFTER I had fired an auto shot. So my pulling went from 2 to 4 shots. now I haven’t run with a pally tank for awhile so I may be rusty but I don’t think I am that rusty. So it may be more than just growl but who knows.
Daniel Beckham on 28 Mar 2008 at 11:12 am #
I can confirm the growl issues. I pull aggro from my pet in one or two rotations now and the cat can never get it back, even if I completely stop melee. I have to either autoshot the entire time, or deal with being in melee for 75% of combat. This is crap.. just crap.
Priian on 28 Mar 2008 at 11:14 am #
I KNEW something was strange about my Boar! Snuffles is a lvl 67 boar with Gore 9, Growl 7, and Charge 6. Before the patch, he put out 3.9-4 K aggro on an initial attack. Now, with everything running, he’s putting out 1.6-1.8 K! With Charge turned off, it’s 900-1200. This will not stand!
I haven’t noticed much change in mana usage, though.
Cotytto on 28 Mar 2008 at 11:17 am #
I have mana issues.I run out of mana constantly now.I can’t go one mob without having to drink.This is really hurting those of us currently leveling our toons.70’s aren’t having nearly the trouble that 1-40’s are.Even 40+ are having to drink/pot often now.I damn sure am not going to be doing any instances in this condition.
I also have been having trouble with my pets’ threat generation.I have both a boar and a cat on my lowbie hunter.I wanted to try a Tauren.
Boar,even if charge and growl is not resited(and the resists on trash low level mobs are higher now than ever before),three auto shots will now pull aggro.That’s without crits.Arcane is just asking for something to get in your grill.
So I unstabled my cat.Growl,Claw,Bite.I thought maybe added dps from the pet might make up for growl not working right.I was wrong.Three non crit auto shots and I’m banging concussive and runing away like a scared litle girl.
Pets aren’t surviving as long either,at least for me.Boar used to get whacked all day long,now it can’t take the hits worth a damn.
I have seen it reported that tanks are not producing threat like they were pre patch either.I think this may be a bug and not a nerf,like the mana regen was.That was intentional,but they didn’t forsee the wide range effects to low levels.Which was just stupid on their part.
The threat generation issues were reported after being found on the PTR.And it seems they were ignored.
I think I’ll go level my mage now.
Master on 28 Mar 2008 at 11:22 am #
Yeah the nerf is so bad that A normal farming system for me.. killing 20 mobs without issues over the past several months… now is nothing but a mess. Something got poop’eyed… and so much so that it’s not really fun. Now that i need to Mele, i am just going to roll a Pally/War.
But heck, you would think that they would address all the farming Bots and BG Bots. But noo… they nerf regulat players.
Reventrant on 28 Mar 2008 at 11:25 am #
If you’re having mana issues on the new island, fight the fiends and not the devourers to get the dust. Fiends don’t do the mana tap spell, which the Devourers will do on you even if the cat is tanking. Fiends will do a life/man channel drain, but the cat doesn’t care and my Paladin just cleanses it off immediatly. Before discovering that little tidbit I was totally hating the new island on my pally.
Fearstalker on 28 Mar 2008 at 11:36 am #
Seems indeed they changed a few things at once, without really testing. Aggro messed up, pet health nerfed, etc.
sigh…
time to get my freelance work done instead.
Róhirrim on 28 Mar 2008 at 12:12 pm #
@Corwyn
That abbreviation doesn’t make sense to me at all…
The one I’ve seen is “MgT” which sounds much more intuitive.
Thanks for the explanation though.
Cheers
//Róhi
Nick on 28 Mar 2008 at 12:52 pm #
@1:
“Are all americans really that arrogant and not in touch with reality?”
The unreliabilty of television for learning about a culture aside, are all non-Americans really that deluded about Americans?
In all seriousness, I see at least one “LOL americans are so (insert insult here)!” post somewhere every single day. It’s tiresome. Please accept that you know just as little about us as we know about you, wherever you’re from.
Anise on 28 Mar 2008 at 1:04 pm #
@Rohirrim
MgT may be more intuitive, but it’s not as cool as MrT. To me, MgT is too similar to an abbreviation of “management” and that’s just unacceptable. I play this game to have fun. MrT for me all the way. I pity the fool who thinks MgT is better or that there is an “s” in Labyrinth. ~.^
Chorius and Spot on 28 Mar 2008 at 1:14 pm #
I haven’t notice the mana issue, except on the Isle of Mana’Drains…
The aggro issue is HUGE though, the only way I don’t pull aggro from my cat now is if I let him chew the mob down to 50% health before I start shooting. If I send him in, wait for a growl, and start popping auto shots, it’s only 2 or 3 non-crits before I pull aggro and he never gets it back (short of FD). This is ridiculous, I’m gonna have to go level my druid until they sort this out.
Oh, and, Chef Ramsay rocks!
dorgol on 28 Mar 2008 at 1:25 pm #
@Reventrant “… fight the fiends and not the devourers … Fiends don’t do the mana tap spell …”
Thanks for the info. I’ll definately keep my eyes open for the better targets. Of course, with the number of players that’s not always an option.
Cotytto on 28 Mar 2008 at 1:36 pm #
I just got through testing my bat.It can’t hold aggro even with screech,though it does so better than growl alone or growl and charge.I get 7 auto shots until I pull aggro.YIPPIE!
This is seriuos business.So no pet can hold decent aggro now.
Fahr & Bacon on 28 Mar 2008 at 1:38 pm #
ZOMG!! That’s why I was having agro issues! With Omen broken for me and no viable threat meter I was having a really rough time not pulling agro away from Bacon. I was thinking that I must REALLY be watching my threat level when I had Omen and was just inept without it… well maybe I am inept without it, but I’m sure if Bliz nerfed boar’s charge agro boost it played a big part in why I was jumping up on the hate levels.
…well on the brighter side it gives me no reason not to get a Bat or Gorilla …or something with AOE threat now.
Cheers!
Fahr & Bacon
A Nonny Mouse on 28 Mar 2008 at 1:57 pm #
@Róhirrim
Using capital letters to illustrate:
MagisteR’s Terrace = MrT = Easy to say and a cute colloquialism.
MrT says, “I pity the fool who goes here before 70!”
MgT… feels more like ManaGemenT, which most of us peons and peasants secretly and openly resent/plot against.
/votes to keep MrT alive!
2cp
Edit: Looks like I was too slow on the draw on this one.
/wince
Bobo & SgtPork on 28 Mar 2008 at 2:05 pm #
Level 61 grinding frostsaber rep (I want muh kittymount!) and I’m noticing mana, pet health, and pet agro issues. Sovled so far like this: Spirit V scrolls for me and Sarge, and Aimed Shot to open, giving him 3 sec more of agg generation. Working okay so far . . .
WB on 28 Mar 2008 at 2:11 pm #
I’ve had a bit of aggro problems on my hutner as well, but I can’t put numbers to it. there seem to be two problems: 1) Omen is not updating threat data properly and 2) something is problematic with pet threat.
Under the catagory of 1), I’m not seeing the aprox 2k threat on Omen with my boar charges. And the threat from my boar and cat are about the same. But this might be omen’s calculation because I’m way over 130% threat when I do eventually pull aggro off the pet. Omen seems way off.
Under the catagory of 2), even though the threat isn’t reported as high as before, and even tho my cat and boar are generating the same threat according to omen, the reality is that I still pull aggro if I’m not careful with my shot rotation. Just finished Z’marsh as lvl 66 (due to rest bonus and instances) so the the pets have a better chance of pounding on the lower lvl mobs, hence I’m not having as much of a problem as others are reporting.
I’ve also heard that warlocks are having similar issues with their tanking pets. Anyone know if that’s true?
As for mana issues, I’m not having much trouble, but I do have AotV on constantly, and two trinkets that both generate mana returns on hits and kills. People are going ot have to pay attention to the 5SR and buy drinks now.
Znodis on 28 Mar 2008 at 2:41 pm #
Here’s info on the mana regen nerf. It has to do with int now affecting how much mana spirit regens. It shouldn’t be much of an issue during boss fights, unless you’re staying outside the 5s rule often.
The bottom line is that for my 185 int and 83 spirit, I’d either need 231 int OR 41 spirit. Clearly, Spirit is what you want to stack to make up for the loss.
Math and info here:
http://themystichunter.wordpress.com/2008/03/28/a-priest-explains-mana-nerf/
Maryl on 28 Mar 2008 at 2:43 pm #
On mana regen: there’s nothing special about the new island, mana regen just changed to favor spirit. So: if you crank up some +spirit, you should get better mana regen. The positive side of this (+spirit = more mana, yay) has been causing druids and priests to do the happy dance for some time now; I guess the not-so-positive side wasn’t apparent to the hunters until it hit. Sad, but there you are.
On paladins and aggro and such: all of my usual “tanking pets,” namely paladins and druids and warriors, are generating threat just as well in 2.4 as they did before, neither significantly more nor significantly less. I’m pretty sure I’d notice, as I surf that early-aggro curve most assiduously as a rogue.
Oilcan on 28 Mar 2008 at 2:48 pm #
Mana regen was changed in 2.4. For hunters it means about 20 less mp5 than before. We never cared about Spirit and base Spirit of 85 was fine (OC happens to have 92).
My mp5 went from 85 or so to 66 with the new formula.
Now, this shouldn’t affect raid boss fights….hunters shoot and use mana before the 5-second rule takes effect.
However, Sal and I had autoshot bug on us Wednesday against Nalorakk, and were left with just our mana shots most of the fight….and we both noticed a mana problem. Since we were basically using our same shot rotation (just without autoshot), there shouldn’t have been any problem. I’ve also noticed while farming that my mana in combat seems to run out more. I usually farm by grabbing 3-6 mobs at once; I use a lot of mana and get regen while looting, etc. before moving on. Since patch, I’ve actually been going OOM, which never happened before.
So…maybe there’s something about combat mana. I dunno.
However, between fights, OC never had a problem with mana regen, Survival uses the least mana of the hunter specs, and I didn’t even have any of the mp5 talents. I used AotH on trash, and switched to Viper as the last died, and back to Hawk as the next pull started. I never had an issue getting regen; the Attumen run, though, I found I actually had to LEAVE Viper on during fights in order maintain a “safe” mana pool (About 50% for trash, in case of mis-pulls/emergencies).
Well, hunters sure as hell aren’t gonna gimp Agility or AP to stack Intellect - much less Spirit - , so the solution is more intensive consumable use and Divine Spirit from priests. Kara bosses I’ve not lately used mana pots on because we take them down fast, well, I’m gonna be using them now because I’ll go OOM on a boss where I didn’t before, even on a farm boss. And I’m gonna be drinking/biscuit-eating as soon as I’m OOC so I’m not mana-starved, and no longer depending on just Viper to get it back.
Elixirs of Major Mageblood are gonna come in real handy. Keep making them. Hell, They’re 5-6g on AH before patch. I’d expect them to go for more now.
Now it appears that pet aggro is also experiencing problems. I had thought while farming humanoids in North Netherstorm that I was drawing aggro off of Toofy (raptor) sooner than usual, but chalked it up to the 68/69 humanoids rather than the 64-66 beast I usually farm. I don’t have a pet with Charge, so if I’m seeing even a slight problem with Toofy, I can only guess as to the extent it affects those with boars.
Also, the mana problem looks like it severely hurts less-than-40s and those without Viper. Add the pet aggro issue, and leveling a hunter…well, I’m glad I’m 70.
GM INFORMATION on 28 Mar 2008 at 2:57 pm #
CONFIRMED
Talked to a GM today and yes…
Deliberate intent to remove pet aggro to develop diverse field. Blizzard wants to stop the amount of bacon fat on the servers.
Yes, Mana ticks are different. IT was in the patch notes. Why? Was told straight up that this is to level the 1-60 playing field. Preventing the hunter rush.
All Hunters will be sadly missed as everyone will turn into a deathnight anyways…
And the BOW drops 1 of every 1000 kills. WTF is that baout..
Val on 28 Mar 2008 at 3:17 pm #
Since I switched from 41/20/0 to 0/21/40 I’ve found myself pulling aggro a lot.. but it prolly has more to do with my monster crit rate than anything my cat is/isn’t doing..
Hunter 101:
pull aggro? /cast feign death
need mana? /cast aspect of the viper
pet dying? /cast mend pet
these aren’t new problems people >.>
edit: Of course, this will make things “tougher” for people leveling as to the availability of Viper but Hunters will still be one of the top leveling classes regardless of whether or not the boar will hold aggro at lvl 12 or not.
Maybe now, these up and coming hunters will learn how to kite before they reach lvl 70
Anonymous on 28 Mar 2008 at 3:22 pm #
“develop diverse field”
WTF does this mean….. Lame.
Anyhow people are talking about boss fights a lot, where you never stop casting so the mana issue may not show there. But in arenas and BGs this will be a issue.
Fearstalker on 28 Mar 2008 at 3:27 pm #
@GM INFORMATION
I call BS on that GM. Reason is that the Mana change was made across the board, we just didn’t realize what the impact was on us. It was not directly targeted at hunters.
Regarding aggro?.. Who knows.. we’ll figure it out in a few weeks. Perhaps intentional, perhaps a result of something else.
But this sounds like a GM that hates hunters.
Chorius and Spot on 28 Mar 2008 at 4:03 pm #
I don’t buy the ‘diverse’ argument to lessen the number of boars… most of the hunter I see running around have cats, and besides, it’s not just boars that have been nerfed, it’s every pet.
Chorius and Spot on 28 Mar 2008 at 4:49 pm #
Hortus on the official WoW bug forums has asked for input, they’re currently doing internal testing to figure out what’s going on. Check it out here:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=5591269680&sid=1&pageNo=1
Cass & Gamera on 28 Mar 2008 at 5:02 pm #
I have a lvl 63 hunter questing in Z’marsh. With the mana/pet aggro issues I spent quite a bit of time helplessly bobbing in the water between the naga and electric eels and staring at an empty manna bar. And there ain’t no kiting on a small rock densely packed with evil mermaids.
I actually DIED! /gasp With feign death and a pet sporting a badass growl I was practically immortal!
But the worst part was that my cute cuddly ravager actually had a red frownie face for the first time since I tamed him. I was almost happy that he couldn’t hold aggro…poor little fella.
If I wanted to spend my WoW life steeped aggro and making corpse runs I’d roll a fire mage!
Manekk on 29 Mar 2008 at 12:25 am #
I tested my boar out now and too me atleast it seems its Omen that is screwed up my boar does even less than 1k threat after charge and growl but still i can start shooting right of the bat, so just before the mobs die my boar is sitting at about 2k threat and myself at maybe 5-6k without me pulling aggro.
Another thing i got Omen to look almost the same as before however i cannot customize the colour on the threat bars as before anyone figure out a way to do this? or have that feature just not been included in the updated versions yet?
Haven´t noticed any mana issues but i havent done anything but farm so far and i always run with viper when i do that anyway.
//Manekk & Ironham
Domovoi & Artemis on 29 Mar 2008 at 2:46 am #
Hrm, I wish i could help you and Hobbes, BRK, but my kitty and i have had no issues thus far with the new content… Except that Kael’thas’s stupid orbs auto-fry pets because they don’t levitate.
The Betwixt on 29 Mar 2008 at 4:51 am #
I’ve had to play musical aggro with all my pets since this patch. Lunch the pig is having a biscuit of a time keeping aggro, even WITH FD, even if I give him some time to get some aggro, even if I misdirect onto him! Porkchop the ravager… I don’t even try. It’s just sad times in hunter-ville. Lampchop the lynx.. well, he can’t keep aggro either. I’m thinking Porkchop is going to get released into the wild, and I’ll pick up a wind serpent… and Wingmaster will be mine… can maybe see how he handles it.
There IS something up with the mana, no matter what spec I’ve been since patch (and I’ve respecced like 3 times now), I’m mana starved. I can’t switch out of Viper if I want any chance at mana regen.
Help meh, BRK!
Xanthelei on 29 Mar 2008 at 7:00 am #
Confirmed on aggro issues. I usually give my pets 1-1.5k aggro on the meters before I start shooting, and I’ve never pulled before one-shot-to-death. I’m attributing about half of the blame to the sweet chest I got out of MgT and the two crit gems I socketed in it. However that wasn’t cutting it in Kara tonight.
It doesn’t help that not everyone has the updated - and working - version of Omen, but most of that place is on farm, and with just Nether, Night and Prince to go we figured it wouldn’t be an issue. Except it was - both our excellent warrior tank and her hubby druid tank couldn’t generate enough threat early on. Instead of the 3-4 second lead they used to need pre-patch, they now need a good 5+ second lead, assuming I start with Steady like I always do. My extra crit and AP from my new chest isn’t helping that. I actually pulled off the boomkin, who pulled off the (dead) Enh Shaman, who pulled from the tank… Threat generation seems to be kinda screwy all around.
Also, I’ve noticed that my FD is being resisted about twice as often as before (prompting me to get the FD bell to tell me the mob still hates me), and my traps are both resisted and break early more than twice as often as before the patch. Hunters never had the best CC, but now it seems I can’t be relied on to CC at all. Regular instance mobs ignore/break my traps - Kara mobs just laugh at me.
The trap/FD issue has motivated me to start collecting that Surv gear… high DPS isn’t any good if my CC mob start oneshotting healers because my traps failed. =/
Jezrael on 29 Mar 2008 at 7:42 am #
Aggro issues?
/sniffle
/hug Sooty
I can’t say that I personally have noticed any major difference. I generally let Sooty build up almost 2k threat before I burn the mob down though. I also have spent most of my time since the patch in heroic MrT or raiding anyway so no chance to really notice a difference. I’ll be paying attention when I play tomorrow!
Tharkuiga on 29 Mar 2008 at 10:03 am #
I tested this on my cat.Growl 3,Claw 3,Bite 3.
I pulled aggro on my first damned auto shot!It’s like the built up aggro disappeared the second I started shooting!And my gear is total crap for a level 20.
Now before I had to do something really stupid to pull aggro using like max arcane shots with serpent and auto in between,doing just about anything seems to pull aggro currently.And that just retarded!
Turlagh on 29 Mar 2008 at 11:46 am #
Thanks for the Gordon Ramsay reference. He’s the only TV personality that I will skip WoW for. I haven’t been playing my hunters for a couple of weeks, so this morning I took my lower lvl (20) Dwarf out for a spin and the mana and boar agro issues sux big time.