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	<title>Comments on: Where&#8217;d Our Ammo Go?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.bigredkitty.net/2008/05/08/whered-our-ammo-go/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.bigredkitty.net/2008/05/08/whered-our-ammo-go/</link>
	<description>World of Warcraft Hunter Blog</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 19:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Rj and Tito</title>
		<link>http://www.bigredkitty.net/2008/05/08/whered-our-ammo-go/#comment-24559</link>
		<dc:creator>Rj and Tito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 May 2008 16:23:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bigredkitty.net/?p=1593#comment-24559</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;2. The new combat log is bugged. Blizzard’s new combat log is not reporting all events.&lt;/i&gt;

Not only is it not reporting all events, it's reporting weird events.  I'm in Terokkar Forest tracking Ironjaw solo, and I'm getting reports on my combat log from people fighting... Erratic Sentries?  Heywaitwhat???  Aren't they on QDaily Isle... on an entirely different planet??

I like the idea of the new combat log, but it is obviously borked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>2. The new combat log is bugged. Blizzard’s new combat log is not reporting all events.</i></p>
<p>Not only is it not reporting all events, it&#8217;s reporting weird events.  I&#8217;m in Terokkar Forest tracking Ironjaw solo, and I&#8217;m getting reports on my combat log from people fighting&#8230; Erratic Sentries?  Heywaitwhat???  Aren&#8217;t they on QDaily Isle&#8230; on an entirely different planet??</p>
<p>I like the idea of the new combat log, but it is obviously borked.</p>
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		<title>By: Schadenfreud</title>
		<link>http://www.bigredkitty.net/2008/05/08/whered-our-ammo-go/#comment-24343</link>
		<dc:creator>Schadenfreud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 10:08:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bigredkitty.net/?p=1593#comment-24343</guid>
		<description>I went to test on Dr Boom last night. And you're right he shouldn't be blocking any shots from a decently geared hunter. 

I will be counting my arrows on my next raid though. 

BRK, of course, can make up his own mind on which weapon he prefers. I suggest that other hunters who are interested in MQOSRDPS should look into the crossbow, since I believe it does more damage. 

Don't take my word for it though, I'd highly suggest making up your own mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went to test on Dr Boom last night. And you&#8217;re right he shouldn&#8217;t be blocking any shots from a decently geared hunter. </p>
<p>I will be counting my arrows on my next raid though. </p>
<p>BRK, of course, can make up his own mind on which weapon he prefers. I suggest that other hunters who are interested in MQOSRDPS should look into the crossbow, since I believe it does more damage. </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t take my word for it though, I&#8217;d highly suggest making up your own mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Felandra</title>
		<link>http://www.bigredkitty.net/2008/05/08/whered-our-ammo-go/#comment-24334</link>
		<dc:creator>Felandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 May 2008 00:43:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bigredkitty.net/?p=1593#comment-24334</guid>
		<description>30% Blocks? Highly unlikely.

Also, BRK has told us why he won't be using the Chicken-on-a-stick, and that is fine. Guns are just way more satisfying overall. And since BRK hates rotation macros with a passion, I doubt we will ever see him drop the badges and get a crossbow he hates using a macro he hates. No point in posting only to tell him he needs the crossbow.

Just drop it.

Anyway you are all wrong in regards to determining the DPS of each weapon. No damage meter addon or even WWS can truly help you. They are all affected by luck and chance. And like in math you can do a million testruns, you will still not have performed the correct empirical test. You have to do the theory to find that.

Simply, go to Boom or your testsubject of preferance, shoot for a set period of time with each weapon (and rotation of course), make sure you do your best to avoid clipping but still stack it as much as you can. Basically do your utmost on each test. We have to assume that you can do the same most of the time.
Then check up on Recount or whatever other addon you might have, how many shots you fired of each type. Then CALCULATE the average damage for each shot. That can be a tough one, granted, so I suggest getting the addon called Dr Damage, it is your own little pocket theorycrafter in regards to damage per shot. Then just add it all up and devide with the amount of time you used in the tests.

Only THEN will you find a solid result. One that isn't marred by too many crits or low/high rolls on the damagerange.
I have the crossbow and such a test showed that a 3:2 rotation beat a 1:1 with about 60 DPS (no armor included though). That's considerable, and enough to let me use it during high mana raids.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>30% Blocks? Highly unlikely.</p>
<p>Also, BRK has told us why he won&#8217;t be using the Chicken-on-a-stick, and that is fine. Guns are just way more satisfying overall. And since BRK hates rotation macros with a passion, I doubt we will ever see him drop the badges and get a crossbow he hates using a macro he hates. No point in posting only to tell him he needs the crossbow.</p>
<p>Just drop it.</p>
<p>Anyway you are all wrong in regards to determining the DPS of each weapon. No damage meter addon or even WWS can truly help you. They are all affected by luck and chance. And like in math you can do a million testruns, you will still not have performed the correct empirical test. You have to do the theory to find that.</p>
<p>Simply, go to Boom or your testsubject of preferance, shoot for a set period of time with each weapon (and rotation of course), make sure you do your best to avoid clipping but still stack it as much as you can. Basically do your utmost on each test. We have to assume that you can do the same most of the time.<br />
Then check up on Recount or whatever other addon you might have, how many shots you fired of each type. Then CALCULATE the average damage for each shot. That can be a tough one, granted, so I suggest getting the addon called Dr Damage, it is your own little pocket theorycrafter in regards to damage per shot. Then just add it all up and devide with the amount of time you used in the tests.</p>
<p>Only THEN will you find a solid result. One that isn&#8217;t marred by too many crits or low/high rolls on the damagerange.<br />
I have the crossbow and such a test showed that a 3:2 rotation beat a 1:1 with about 60 DPS (no armor included though). That&#8217;s considerable, and enough to let me use it during high mana raids.</p>
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		<title>By: Irshi</title>
		<link>http://www.bigredkitty.net/2008/05/08/whered-our-ammo-go/#comment-24329</link>
		<dc:creator>Irshi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 21:09:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bigredkitty.net/?p=1593#comment-24329</guid>
		<description>Blocks, in WoW, are only partial.  So if the shots were blocked it'd show up in the log as mitigated.  They're still hits.

A blocked shot looks like this in the logs:

You hit mob X for 394 (394 blocked)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Blocks, in WoW, are only partial.  So if the shots were blocked it&#8217;d show up in the log as mitigated.  They&#8217;re still hits.</p>
<p>A blocked shot looks like this in the logs:</p>
<p>You hit mob X for 394 (394 blocked)</p>
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		<title>By: Q</title>
		<link>http://www.bigredkitty.net/2008/05/08/whered-our-ammo-go/#comment-24328</link>
		<dc:creator>Q</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 21:02:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bigredkitty.net/?p=1593#comment-24328</guid>
		<description>Dr. Boom will turn to look towards you even if you shoot / cast from the side, so attacking him from the rear will not remove the block option from this hit table.  Nice thought though ;-)

For re-testing purposes, I'd suggest using a far smaller sample, say 20 arrows, using recount and WWS against each other, along with your combat log, maybe a pencil and paper, and lather, rinse, repeat until you find which shots appear to be getting missed.

As for blocks, I'm not thinking that Dr. Boom has a 15 - 30% block rate, but I could be wrong ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Boom will turn to look towards you even if you shoot / cast from the side, so attacking him from the rear will not remove the block option from this hit table.  Nice thought though <img src='http://www.bigredkitty.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>For re-testing purposes, I&#8217;d suggest using a far smaller sample, say 20 arrows, using recount and WWS against each other, along with your combat log, maybe a pencil and paper, and lather, rinse, repeat until you find which shots appear to be getting missed.</p>
<p>As for blocks, I&#8217;m not thinking that Dr. Boom has a 15 - 30% block rate, but I could be wrong <img src='http://www.bigredkitty.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Noxveritas and Ripley</title>
		<link>http://www.bigredkitty.net/2008/05/08/whered-our-ammo-go/#comment-24321</link>
		<dc:creator>Noxveritas and Ripley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 19:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bigredkitty.net/?p=1593#comment-24321</guid>
		<description>It would be fairly easy to test for blocks.  go jump up on the spikes behind him or perhaps the barrels to his side and plink away from over there.  Blocks only occur from in front.  

Still would not explain why all other hunter's do not report the same problem.  I think I may test it myself a touch today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be fairly easy to test for blocks.  go jump up on the spikes behind him or perhaps the barrels to his side and plink away from over there.  Blocks only occur from in front.  </p>
<p>Still would not explain why all other hunter&#8217;s do not report the same problem.  I think I may test it myself a touch today.</p>
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		<title>By: Schadenfreud</title>
		<link>http://www.bigredkitty.net/2008/05/08/whered-our-ammo-go/#comment-24308</link>
		<dc:creator>Schadenfreud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 16:40:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bigredkitty.net/?p=1593#comment-24308</guid>
		<description>I've been doing a bit of reading up on this. And I think those shots might have been blocked.

As discussed here on the EJ forums. http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t15685-ranged_combat_mechanics/

BTW, the new crossbow is awesome, and I highly reccommend for any BM hunter.

Schadenfreud and Yossarian</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been doing a bit of reading up on this. And I think those shots might have been blocked.</p>
<p>As discussed here on the EJ forums. <a href="http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t15685-ranged_combat_mechanics/" rel="nofollow">http://elitistjerks.com/f47/t15685-ranged_combat_mechanics/</a></p>
<p>BTW, the new crossbow is awesome, and I highly reccommend for any BM hunter.</p>
<p>Schadenfreud and Yossarian</p>
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		<title>By: Theaah</title>
		<link>http://www.bigredkitty.net/2008/05/08/whered-our-ammo-go/#comment-24302</link>
		<dc:creator>Theaah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 11:11:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bigredkitty.net/?p=1593#comment-24302</guid>
		<description>I know the gun racial bonus is nice and all, but the Crossbow of Relentless Strikes really is the best BM weapon in the game. I would highly recommend getting it. (I suppose the bow from Sunwell might be better [I haven't plugged that into cheeky's to find out], but that's about it save for the Legendary bow of course. And the bow from Sunwell might not be due to the speed on it.) It's higher DPS than anything you'll find before BT/MH and it's the proper speed for BM. (Which honestly makes it better than the BT/MH ones even though they're slightly higher DPS; the speed on them sucks.)

I can understand being attached to your weapon. I used Don Santos' for AGES and it was really hard to actually part with it for the Chicken of Relentless Strikes. (Have you looked at the thing? It's ridiculous looking.) But once I started using Crossbow, I fell in love. It's a absolutely beautiful speed (granted I don't have much passive haste gear) for manually threading, even with Quick Shots procs. And, of course, lovely to use with a 1:1 macro. (I manually weave when soloing and farming and use a macro in instances.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know the gun racial bonus is nice and all, but the Crossbow of Relentless Strikes really is the best BM weapon in the game. I would highly recommend getting it. (I suppose the bow from Sunwell might be better [I haven't plugged that into cheeky's to find out], but that&#8217;s about it save for the Legendary bow of course. And the bow from Sunwell might not be due to the speed on it.) It&#8217;s higher DPS than anything you&#8217;ll find before BT/MH and it&#8217;s the proper speed for BM. (Which honestly makes it better than the BT/MH ones even though they&#8217;re slightly higher DPS; the speed on them sucks.)</p>
<p>I can understand being attached to your weapon. I used Don Santos&#8217; for AGES and it was really hard to actually part with it for the Chicken of Relentless Strikes. (Have you looked at the thing? It&#8217;s ridiculous looking.) But once I started using Crossbow, I fell in love. It&#8217;s a absolutely beautiful speed (granted I don&#8217;t have much passive haste gear) for manually threading, even with Quick Shots procs. And, of course, lovely to use with a 1:1 macro. (I manually weave when soloing and farming and use a macro in instances.)</p>
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		<title>By: Irshi</title>
		<link>http://www.bigredkitty.net/2008/05/08/whered-our-ammo-go/#comment-24298</link>
		<dc:creator>Irshi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 22:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bigredkitty.net/?p=1593#comment-24298</guid>
		<description>I'd like to echo a few of the suggested changes to your tests.

Make certain your log is switched to 'self.'  It should only display things that happen to you or that you do.  This will limit the clutter that may cause it to miss shots.  (Dr. Boom tosses a Boom Bot ...)

Use a real time DPS meter and WWS.  Compaire the results.  You can probably save yourself some time by dividing the log using WWS's tools as opposed to logging out and back in after each test but depends on your login/logoff speed and how well you know the tools.

Use time instead of ammo.  This will save you from having to run back to the bank.  It's also more realistic to how we actually fight.  You don't fire 200 or 1,000 shots at a boss.  You fight him/her for x minutes.  I personally use 2m increments for my tests as it allows me to use my CD's (if I so desire) for each test.

Try multiple rotations.  Use a 3:2 rotation for your slower weapon (Tuskbreaker) and see if it does more damage.

I think you're likely to see BBLR outdpsing all others with a 1:1 rotation.  BBLR is the best drop pre-T6 stuff, possibly better than Vashj's bow with a 3:2 rotation.  (Speaking strickly for BM hunters)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to echo a few of the suggested changes to your tests.</p>
<p>Make certain your log is switched to &#8217;self.&#8217;  It should only display things that happen to you or that you do.  This will limit the clutter that may cause it to miss shots.  (Dr. Boom tosses a Boom Bot &#8230;)</p>
<p>Use a real time DPS meter and WWS.  Compaire the results.  You can probably save yourself some time by dividing the log using WWS&#8217;s tools as opposed to logging out and back in after each test but depends on your login/logoff speed and how well you know the tools.</p>
<p>Use time instead of ammo.  This will save you from having to run back to the bank.  It&#8217;s also more realistic to how we actually fight.  You don&#8217;t fire 200 or 1,000 shots at a boss.  You fight him/her for x minutes.  I personally use 2m increments for my tests as it allows me to use my CD&#8217;s (if I so desire) for each test.</p>
<p>Try multiple rotations.  Use a 3:2 rotation for your slower weapon (Tuskbreaker) and see if it does more damage.</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;re likely to see BBLR outdpsing all others with a 1:1 rotation.  BBLR is the best drop pre-T6 stuff, possibly better than Vashj&#8217;s bow with a 3:2 rotation.  (Speaking strickly for BM hunters)</p>
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		<title>By: Vurag</title>
		<link>http://www.bigredkitty.net/2008/05/08/whered-our-ammo-go/#comment-24283</link>
		<dc:creator>Vurag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 May 2008 16:28:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bigredkitty.net/?p=1593#comment-24283</guid>
		<description>Use Recount, for the love of all that is huntery!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Use Recount, for the love of all that is huntery!</p>
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