Dr. Boom, We Love You
We’ve been playing around with a few of the popular shot rotation macros, to see how they perform with our gear. One reason we’re interested in these things is that the Kill Commands are included. While we still feel that a manual shot rotation is more hunterish, it cannot be argued that manually slapping Kill Command is more efficient. It is not; the macro wins that battle hands-down. If you wish to argue that you use a shot rotation macro so that you don’t miss any Kill Commands, we won’t disapprove.
So what are these macros? Well, there are two: the 1:1 Auto/Steady and the 3:2 Auto Steady.
Our 1:1 Auto/Steady Shot Rotation Macro
/castrandom [target=pettarget,exists] Kill Command
/castsequence reset=2 Steady Shot, !Auto Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear();
Don’t freak out, this isn’t rocket science. Let’s look at the steps one at a time.
/castrandom [target=pettarget,exists] Kill Command - This macro will make your pet attack will a Kill Command if it is available and your pet is attacking something. However, if your pet is sitting by your side and not attacking when Kill Command activates, it will not cast Kill Command and your pet will not leap into combat. And we use the ‘castrandom’ instead of a plain ‘cast’ so that if the Kill Command will cause an error message, the Kill Command will be ignored.
Isn’t that neat? If you do a macro like,
/castrandom Spell A, Spell B, Spell C
and when you hit the macro, Spell A would cause an error, the castrandom command will eliminate Spell A from its selection process and randomly pick either Spell B or Spell C.
Thus, when we do a
/castrandom Kill Command
and Kill Command would cause an error, it won’t cast it. Very handy. Moving on, let’s break down the next line.
/castsequence - that’s going to make our macro execute commands one at a time, with each keypress
reset=2 - If you don’t press this macro in two seconds, reset it and always cast the first action in the castsequence line the next time the macro is executed.
Steady Shot - The first time you press the macro, cast Steady Shot
!Auto Shot - Oh ho! Auto Shot is a “toggle” spell for hunters. If we just put Auto Shot in the castsequence, it would turn Auto Shot on, then off, then on, then off, and we don’t want that. What the ! does is to tell the macro, ‘do not turn off Auto Shot, only turn it on’.
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear();
If any Lua error messages are hocked-up on the screen, dismiss them.
So that’s the macro, and what it does is cast Steady, Auto, Steady, Auto, etc. with Kill Command automatically cast. Now there’s another popular high-DPS macro in vogue right now, that’s the 3:2.
Our 3:2 Auto/Steady Shot Rotation Macro
/cast !Auto Shot
/castrandom [target=pettarget, exists] Kill command
/cast Steady Shot
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
Not much different than the 1:1, is there. What we’ve done is break up the castsequence command into two casts. However, due to the workings of the global cooldown, the shots that will be fired now will look like: Steady, Steady, Auto, Steady, Auto.
The “jerks” out there will tell you that one should select the appropriate macro based upon one’s ranged weapon’s speed. Fast weapons will benefit from the 1:1 macro, slow weapons from the 3:2. Also, they say that the more Haste you pack with your slow weapon, the more effective the 3:2 macro will be.
We’re not going to break all that down, the “jerks” have done quite enough research and reporting in that area.
What we do want to look at is how these macros work with our gear.
The guns we’re going to test are Tuskbreaker and the Barrel-Blade Longrifle. We used the 1:1 and the 3:2 macros with each gun, four sessions each. For each run we made a fresh WoWCombatLog.txt file. After the run we stopped recording, logged completely out of WoW, and used WoWWebStats to extract and analyze the data. After the WWS report was generated, we trashed the old WoWCombatLog.txt file.
We used Aspect of the Hawk, no trinkets, no potions, and our digital Combat Grilling Timer - what we use to ensure our steaks are done perfectly - for perfect one minute testing intervals.
You can see the results of our testing in the spreadsheet above, and you can download it here. The first section of our spreadsheet shows the results in descending-DPS order. A Tuskbreaker 3:2 session is first with 849DPS and a Barrel-Blade Longrifle 1:1 session is last with 670DPS.
The next section of the spreadsheet is the averages of these runs. Our Tuskbreaker 3:2 runs were tops, averaging 817DPS and our Barrel-Bladed Longrifle 1:1 runs were last, averaging 742DPS.
But look at the data again. Those BBL 1:1 runs had the greatest discrepancy between best and worst DPS, from 809 to 670. If you look at the Auto Crit% for those last two BBL 1:1 runs, you’ll see that they’re the two worst of all 16 runs. Crank those Auto Crits up five percent and those two BBL 1:1 runs will easily fall in line with the other two. And if we did that, the BBL 1:1 average would surpass the Tuskbreaker 1:1 average, which due to the slow speed of the TBR, we would expect to see.
Speaking of the TBR, those TBR 1:1 runs are pretty interesting. Even with super-high crit percentages for both Steady and Auto, the TBR never surpassed the BBL 3:2, even at its worst. If nothing else, we’ve proved that using Tuskbreaker with a 1:1 Auto/Steady macro is the worst method of generating MQoSRDPS we tested.
How about the BBL 3:2 sessions? We’ve read that if one uses a 3:2 macro with a fast weapon, the macro behaves like a 1:1 and thus there is no benefit. Well, from our testing, a BBL used with a 3:2 macro may or may not generate a 1:1 Steady/Auto ratio. If one counts our number of Autos and Steadys and looks at the ratios, one sees this:
Of the four BBL 3:2 runs, two times we get a 1:1 ratio and two times we get a 3:2 ration. And a connection between ratio and DPS is not apparent, either. The highest BBL 3:2 DPS is a 3:2, the worst is a 3:2. The middle two BBL 3:2 runs have shots that result in a 1:1 ration. Fascinating!
Tuskbreaker with a 3:2 shot rotation macro produced the single-highest DPS run of all, and the highest average of all the runs. What we didn’t expect was that the BBL 3:2 was the second highest; we thought the BBL 1:1 would do much better. But even with boosting those last two BBL 1:1 runs crit percentages, it wouldn’t pass the BBL 3:2 average.
Haste! They say the 3:2 works wonders with a slower weapon, like Tuskbreaker, and Haste effects. Well we happen to have some haste-gear, our Shoulders of Lightning Reflexes.
But we can’t just slap those on; we have a two-piece Tier 5 gear bonus we must maintain. If we’re going to equip those shoulders over our T5 shoulders, we’ve got to put our T5 gloves back on, which means taking our Gauntlets of Rapidity.
Gloves off, gloves, on, shoulders off, shoulders on, equip Tuskbreaker, run four 3:2 macro sessions, record the data, and that’s the third section of our spreadsheet. That 850DPS run was the first one we did with the Haste gear, and we did backflips. ZOMG IT’S AWESOME! But we continued with the testing, doing three more runs. We averaged those four runs and compared it to the previous runs, which we show in the final section of the spreadsheet. And those other runs brought us back to Earth.
The hasted-TBR 3:2 average did not exceed the unhasted-TBR 3:2 average, and we think we know why: the gear switching was just too detrimental to our stats. The BoJ gloves are plain ol’ better than the T5s, and the Haste shoulders are worse than our T5s. What we gained in Haste we lost in stats. In our case, there just doesn’t seem to be a reason to swap our stuff around to gain a small Haste bonus.
But as we accumulate more Haste gear, we’ll continue to do more Dr. Boom testing to see just what is beneficial and what is not.
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How do we use the macro? Is it a spam-fest? Do we still have to time it right?
Even reading this over really carefully I can’t understand the details, just the over all meaning. I wish I understood more theorycrafting, not to mention the macros /sigh.
Man..never ceases to amaze me how helpful you are. You have turned an uber Noob Hunter into the top DPS and Damage Done in my guild. No one understands how a hunter can spank the Lock, Shadow Priests and Mages on the regular. This Macro alone has made a significant jump in my DPS..thanks again!!!
n52 review please!
SO should I use a macro? I always liked just doing it manually.
If you like doing your rotation manually, do it manually.
If you like doing a macro, do a macro, but do the best macro you can.
Spamfest. We’ll do a quick movie to show you how!
Ok, the steadys on the Tuskbreaker should be hitting for more than the BBL since steady shot damage is based on weapon damage. Then switch to a 3 steady : 2 auto and you’re squeezing in more of your harder hitting shots.
What did your mana consumption look like BRK?
3:2 mana consumption was greater than the 1:1, no doubt. We didn’t keep a record of it, as we’re not focusing on DPS-efficiency, just max-DPS.
If you’re going to do the 3:2 macro, taking 5/5 points in Efficiency would seem to be very beneficial. As long as one hunter in your raid has Improved Hunter’s Mark, you’ll be fine.
/head-a-splode
So is BRK going to be using macros now instead of doing it manually?
lol Lashay
I’ve been using a rudimentary Kill Command with Steady Shot macro just recently, this one here looks like it might tidy it up a little…
If only you were a girl… And an orc… I’d kiss you ^^
In this whole post, I hope everyone realizes this is the most important line.
“What we do want to look at is how these macros work with our gear.”
See what works with your setup … he’s given you the tools here.
Very impressive post BRK as always, thumbs up for you, indeed macroing is the best for a BM hunter (more harder for MM), but i’am from EU realm and i dunno if US players get the same nasty bug as us.
With a precise timing the kill command can block alot of thing like feeding the pet / aiming a player / casting autoshot etc… it’s really an annoying bug and was normally fixed in 2.4.2, but blizzard did not, we saw some improvements (like feeding pet working) but autoshot still blocked, and you need to place an another KC to get it working again, messing up your rotation with arcane shot + steady shot waiting for a damn crit
Therefore i only use manual rotation since it’s alot less subject to the KC blocking, but my dps is around 3/4% less, damn you blizzard ;( Do you have the same issue US players ?
Cheers
PS : would like to see you react on the new hunt changes of the 2.4.2 patch
Roughly, what is the shot-speed cut-off where one rotation is better than the other?
3:2 ratio is win!
to offset the mana consumption i recomend finding a way to get a ret pally in your raid for judgement of wis and/or rolling alchemy to grab the alchy stone.
This really disappoints me..I thought BRK would never use a shot rotation macro…
You should just sell your account and play a lock if you want just smash one key to kill. I have lost a good deal of respect for your gameplay..oh well.
-ironshaft
Lol, Ironshaft!
I am a noob Hunter… I recently turned 70 - I collect my blues, I farm for my epic flying mount… I learn my class…
BRK and the forums here are the reason why I am a decent huntard. I trap, I off tank, I kite, I jump shot… in PvP, in dungeons… soon in Raids…
My experience is little, I know… But… As a Hunter you have to do a lot of things if you want to take your job seriously… Trap Duty, Save the Healer, Kite… Oh $hiT! control… To have the focus for that, I need to have my eyes everywhere. And not having them focused on a timer add-on… manually weaving while my priest dies…
Correct me if I am wrong… but the Hunter class is the only class that has to worry about clipping auto-attacks. Which is imho extremely stupid since we aren’t a pure dps class… we are so much more if played right.
To cut it short: I use a macro so I can do my other jobs right without sacrificing my dps.
Don’t jump on BRK because he tests macros. Macros aren’t easy mode, they free resources you can use elsewhere.
/hugZ
Krud
BRK can you also come up with a 3:2 Macro for Wind serpents to include Lightning Breath please.
One problem I’ve had with the 3:2 macro (both this example, and one I’d used previously), was that after spamming it for a while, I can’t turn off Auto Shot. When I stop with the macro spamming, I just go into Auto Shot and my AS button flashes red. I should be able to press the AS button to toggle my Auto Shot off, but it doesn’t work. The only way I can stop shooting, at this point, is to feign death or deselect the target.
Thanks for going to all this effort, BRK. The results are very interesting. I’m tempted to go and re-do my own tests on Dr. Boom, especially since I’ve gotten some better gear now.
My main issue with macros at the moment is the *several lines of expletives deleted* lock-out bug that Blizzard STILL haven’t fixed. You know: hit Kill Command at a bad time, and it locks out your auto shot until you crit and can get another one off.
I freely accept that having Kill Command macroed in somewhere will give me higher DPS, but I deeply suspect that being able to auto shot will yield considerably higher DPS than that…
Have a look here http://www.bigredkitty.net/forums/index.php?topic=1003.0
for an interesting slant on the 3:2 macro and an attempt to reduce the incidence of the KC bug.
I still get some lockups, but it seems there are less when using this technique.
as for that peanut Ironshaft - words fail me.
cheers
Fatboy on Amun’thal
Thanks for doing a lot of the dirty work on these macros, I know its not always fun to spend a good many hours testing this and that.
I play on an oceanic server, and I saw the same problems with the auto/steady/KC macro locking out my autoshot, but oddly enough I noticed that it also locked me out of using anything in my bag, picking herbs, skinning and the like.
And to Ironshaft, I’ve lost a lot of respect in you if you think that playing a raiding warlock is just press one button to kill. Or any class for that matter.
Thanks
I set up the 1:1 macro to try out, and I find that the annoying “That ability is not ready yet” really gets on my nerves. Also, While using the macro, it seems to sometimes not do anything when I spam it too fast, and when I spam it too slow, KC sometimes does not activate until the next cycle when I push the macro button yet again.
The old macro *before it started locking me in combat*, seemed to work much easier and effective with spamming the button 1 to 2 times a second. The new one has yet to impress me overall.
Can someone expound on their experiences with it so far?
ZOMG BRK!!
You are the Bomb Digggity!
(I owed you that extra g there from before.)
This is awesome info and sharing your research into making you play better shows us how we can do it too.
Much <3 for BRK,
Lestyr
Hey BRK, thanks for your blog.
This was exactly what I thought - that 1:1 was better for faster speeds and 3:2 for slightly slower ones - and that 3:2 scales with haste, but will never be as good as 1:1 if you are fast enough.
But this has come up on the EU hunter forum here: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=4095420667&sid=1
That’s me talking about sweet spots, and getting assured that the only macro to ever use is 3:2, because it scales perfectly. But lots of stuff I’ve read on BRK and EJ has given me the impression it doesn’t, in fact, scale entirely perfectly … oif. I’m confused.
FWIW, the advice I give my guild’s hunters is to try them both and see what works, but I’d really like to know if the official forum thread is wrong, and why it’s wrong. Anyone?
Clear the error messages:
Add “/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()” at the end of your macro.
Clear annoying GCD sounds from the 3:2:
Add “/console Sound_EnableSFX 0″ after the /cast !Auto Shot line and “/console Sound_EnableSFX 1″ after the Steady Shot line.
So a full 3:2 macro reads:
#showtooltip Steady Shot
/cast !Auto shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Kill Command
/cast Steady shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
Clean, quiet, deadly…
You should be using your 3:2 macro regardless of what rotation you use. The 3:2 macro will automatically adjust to 1:1 if you actually have a fast enough attack speed to do so. Castsequence macros are very much out-dated due to the Auto Shot functionality changes.
When I try the same test for my hunter with my weapons and my gear and swap stuff out for each test I’m going to do it with the cheapest ammo possible to save money. That way I can shoot longer for more precise data for less money. What can I say…I’m cheap.
@Itsnoteasy
“!Auto Shot - Oh ho! Auto Shot is a “toggle” spell for hunters. If we just put Auto Shot in the castsequence, it would turn Auto Shot on, then off, then on, then off, and we don’t want that. What the ! does is to tell the macro, ‘do not turn off Auto Shot, only turn it on’.”
This is what was causing my Auto Shot lockups as I didn’t have the ! modifier in my macro.
How is this a 3:2 macro looks like a 1:1 to me?
–
#showtooltip Steady Shot
/cast !Auto shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Kill Command
/cast Steady shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
I swapped to a macro too, not to lose kill commands, but to pay more attention to the other things, when to pop trinkets, heal pet, keep stings up, etc…
however after playing with the 3:2 for a while, it uses SO much more mana, I went back to the 1:1
YMMV
Pronkeito,
the macro will attempt to do both the Auto Shot and the Steady Shot AT ONCE (I am ignoring all the other lines as they are not relevant to the shots), not in a sequence.
But of course you can only fire one shot at a time. So the first shot you fire is an Auto Shot, as it’s the first line of the macro. You spam the macro and your hunter starts to line up a Steady Shot. When that’s done, and you’re still spamming the macro, the Auto Shot is not yet ready, but the Steady Shot is. So you fire another Steady Shot. After that, the Auto Shot is ready so that’s fired, and then another Steady and you’re back at the beginning.
So shots fired are: Auto, Steady, Steady, Auto, Steady and repeat. Steady:Auto = 3:2.
@ Hombre
Thanks bro, but I wasn’t confused about the macro…nameless was, he thinks it’s a 1:1. I was just posting to help those with questions about error messages and to add two lines to get rid of the annoying sounds that come from the macro.
That is the correct explaination though
Pronkeito,
yeah, after posting I saw your earlier post here and that made me realize you knew perfectly well how it worked :-).
In my defense, though, I just worked out how the 3:2 macro works myself and I was really proud of that so I wanted to explain it right away!
so you spent hours testing on something many people have been telling you to use, the 3:2. Not only have they been telling you to use this macro, they’ve even linked the research to you on numerous occasions.
/facepalm
time wasted which could have been spent hunter badges, nabbing epic gems, selling said gems to buy sunmotes.
Thx BRK for the intensive research you have gone thru.
I am still using the old 1:1 steady/auto/kill command macro that I snatched from somewhere long ago. Luckily for some reason the autoshot/kill command getting stuck problem never happened to me for some reason that evades me.
I have been busy nowadays and I dropped from regular raider status and I must admit I havent been able to pay my hunter the attention it deserves.
My shot rotation involved double tapping the auto/steady/kc macro fast as soon as my previous autoshot fires. Then weaving arcane/MS to the time spaces between the end of Steady and the end of Auto. This was ofcourse quite mana intensive and sometimes I had to drop to auto/steady/kc only with Asp.of the Viper for mana efficient though lower dps.
The notion of 3:2 steady/auto ratio sounded quite alien to me when i first seen it on the net. I still gotta try it to see what Recount shows and decide it myself I guess.
My main question here is “is there any Arcane/MS weaving possible/involved?” or is it simply not possible becoz of the GCD? Though even it is possible my mana would hit the nine hells in about 10 secs i guess with 3:2 steady per auto and Arcane and MS as they become available.
Thanks
Regards
Fuinequendi of Khadgar/EU
and
Süleyman of Raptors of Blade’s Edge Mountains of Khadgar/EU
Just a note on the /castrandom:
It does not work the way you said it does. /castrandom is used to cast one of a list of spell/abilities at random. (Thus making it pretty terrible to use for anything if you want to be optimizing cooldowns or anything similar.) /castrandom with a single spell functions no differently than a plain /cast.
Having the kill command in a spam macro does not cause your pet to attack your target if they’re just sitting at your side chilling out. I know because I’ve been using a 1:1 macro for months and months and the only time it’s caused an issue was if I had JUST recalled my pet and the pet was either barely out of melee or still in melee when a KC went off causing my pet to go back in to hit the mob again. I’ve never had it send my pet into attack from at my side. Ever.
As for the “that ability is not ready yet” spam, there are simple command lines to add to clear the errors from your screen that were posted above.
For reference, the macro I’ve been using forever and love because it almost /never/ locks KC for me is:
#showtooltip
/script UIErrorsFrame:Hide()
/castsequence reset=1 Steady Shot, !Auto Shot
/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill Command
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear(); UIErrorsFrame:Show()
I’ve had the same problem with the 3:2 macro someone stated above: After spamming it I can’t get autoshot to turn off my hitting my “attack” button like I can with the 1:1. This is not such a big deal on ’stand and shoot’ bosses, but for trash and aggro-sensitive bosses it’s a problem. (nevermind that 3:2 is a mana intensive rotation) This is why I adjust what macros I use for the fight, just like adjusting gear for situations.
No, we’re quite correct.
Yes, /castrondom does indeed randomly cast a spell from a list.
And yes, it will ignore any spell in the list that will cause an error.
Thus, a /castrandom with a single spell will not cast anything if that single spell will cause an error. Hence, we use it as we describe.
US Realm player (Silvermoon): Not a macro user but still running into the Kill Command lock up, usually towards the end of a fight when I’ve cast the KC which leaves me locked up until I can start fighting again by spamming Arcane or Steady Shot. The I have to wait for a crit so I can cast KC again to unlock it.
Note: I have had this lock up on Arcane Shot as well which is MUCH easier to get out of. I’ve been able to right click Arcane Shot to get “unstuck”…..
Blizz, wasssap with this?!??!
BRK,
Great to see you testing and trying these out for yourself.
It might be beneficial to have a larger sample size to smooth out random differences between your runs, in particular crit % and procs of IAotH. IAotH might be the reason you ended up with an effective 1:1 ratio in your middle two BBL 3:2 runs.
On another note, is there any other class where weapon choice is so complicated? And is that a bad thing or a good thing?
BRK,
The best shot rotation macro out there is Manito’s (from your own forums, of course!). It is both 1:1 and 3:2. It switches to the appropriate one depending on your current attack speed. It also takes the Kill Command and puts it in a separate macro which reduces the chance that KC could get locked up.
Enjoy!
For me the big issue is mana regen. If i go 3:2 I go OOM between pots. Not good. I find it’s better to go 1:1 and with hawk than 3:2 and viper. But yeah everyone should do these tests for their own gear. It strongly depends on bow speed, haste, specials, trinkets like DST, etc.
#showtooltip
/console Sound_EnableSFX 0
/tar [exists, nodead, harm]; pettarget
/cast !Auto shot
/cast [target=pettarget, exists] Kill command
/cast Steady shot
/console Sound_EnableSFX 1
/script UIErrorsFrame:Clear()
Try this one, almost same as posted above but
/tar [exists, nodead, harm]; pettarget
this line will target same target as your pet target but only if you do not have target otherwise it will keep your target.
Nice in fights like Hydross, Kael, or Karathres with totems any other fight where you have to focus on adds and then on boss. Just send pet to boss you will finish adds and this line will target boss again. It is very fast
Honestly, for me, the biggest benefit of using one of these macros isn’t the extras steadies, the non-missed KCs, or even the upped DPS (At least not directly).
I use these things in the t5 25 mans (which I’m fairly new to) because the lag is so bad I can’t manually time my shots with any kind of reliability (especially when I’m still learning the fights). For me, having the macro means I can learn the fight and continue to put out respectable damage — not to rule the damage meter, but just to DO MY JOB, despite non-wow technical barriers over which I have no control.
Thanks for the analysis (again), BRK. Job well done.
BRK - Excellent work and thanks for the effort.
The only problem I have is with the sampling: it’s far too small to extrapolate on. The wildly varying crit percentages seem to be a pretty good indicator of this. Or am I ignorant of some game mechanic that would intrinsically make the BBL crit less often? As it stands a 20% shift (18% -> 38%) is a massive difference.
With that said, I appreciate how much time it took to run this test and trying to flesh anything out on a larger scale would be ridiculous. Just saying that I’m not completely sold on the results.
I’ve never been much of a macro user, and i’ve never had a shot rotation macro even though I understand the function/purpose.
As a non-kiting proficient, mouse click player i’m not really into alot of the high end 70+ practices but,…….
….I will never be without a shot rotation macro again.
3:2 just changed the way I play my hunters.
Impressive research and education material as usual BRK, thx.
Feuerhund and Toophid
I am wondering while you’re using these macros is there ever a time where you slip in an Arcane Shot or is it best to go from Steady/Auto and forget all the rest of the shots? If so, I can really clean up my interface :-)!
Thanks BRK for the best hunter site on the Net!
Bandizar - LVL 70 BM Hunter - Zangarmarsh
Arcane shot is an instant shot, best used for kiting, and whenever a little extra damage is more important than mana conservation.
But thats the thing, in a sustained shot rotation it will simply eat your limited mana pool alive. It does alot of instant damage but it’s not mana efficient for anything long term, which is what rotation macros are all about.
Also see: MQSRDPS
http://www.bigredkitty.net/forums/index.php?topic=1003.0
This thread has been around for quite a while now, discussing all the benefits, problems, tweaking, etc, surrounding using the 3:2 macro.
Using the macro BRK posted will of course have issues, because Kill Command is in between the shots. Having KC there tends to cause inconsistent shot ratio results because of KC going off.
23,000 views and counting
The macro also includes error sound removal, and there is also an alternate version of the macro that actually includes Lightning Breath in the first post as well.
About the Kill Command lockup bug: as of 2.4.2, it’s still there but you can use ESC to clear it. Quite frankly, from my experience it actually happens more often than it did in 2.4.1 (though that may be because it worries me less, and so fail to work as hard at avoiding it), but it’s less crippling if you’re paying attention.