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Building a 51/10/0 BM Hunter

BRK » 11 November 2008 » In Talents »

Talents, foshizzle. There’s a difference between respeccing yourself at level seventy and building your hunter, level by level. If you’re a level ten hunter and want to know where to spend your first talent point, and where the subsequent ones will go in the future, this post is for you.

We’re going to build a “cookie-cutter” 51/10/0 Beastmaster hunter. What is a “cookie-cutter” build? It’s a build that has been proven as solid, well-designed, and has few detractors. It may not be “sexy” or a hybrid build that few people have tried, but it if someone /inspects you and sees your talents, they will assume that you at least know how to build yourself in a competent manner.

Let the cookie-cutting begin!

Talent Points 1-5: Endurance Training

Because your pet is your tank, you want to make him as strong as possible. Endurance Training is the best way to start your pet on his way to OT’ing Naxxramas. Why not Improved Aspect of the Hawk? Because you’re so powerful, nothing is going to bother you for long periods of time; fights will be quick, complete in seconds. Now once you start raiding and your pet won’t be off-tanking, we’ll revise this list and start with IAotH. But for now, stamina-up, baby.

Talent Points 6-8: Thick Hide

We have four choices in our level two talents, so let’s crank our pet’s armor. He’s our tank, so mitigaing damage is a Big Deal.

Improved Aspect of the Monkey? When we get Aspect of the Dragonhawk deep in our 70s, we might revisit this. For leveling, though, no way. You’re not supposed to be getting into melee range, that’s your pet’s job. Improved Revive Pet? If your pet is dying in PvE, you’re doing something really wrong. A dead pet while questing or leveling is a sign you’re overreaching or going somewhere you don’t belong. For PvP, we can bless this talent. For PvE, forget it.

Talent Points 9-10: Focused Fire

Extra damage for just having your pet beside you is Win. No Improved Revive Pet? Nope, as we said before, dead pets are the hunter’s fault, so don’t let it happen.

Talent Point 11: Aspect Mastery

Something new from Wrath, we want Aspect Mastery ASAP. The bonus to Aspect of the Hawk scales as we level; sweet. And the harder you hit, the quicker stuff dies. The assistance with the redesigned Aspect of the Viper isn’t shabby, either.

Talent Points 12-15: Unleashed Fury

Notice that we’re not putting five points here, only four. Why? Because there are more important talents further down the tree and we don’t want to delay getting them. We’ll revisit UF later, but for now, don’t max it, just put the four points in it so we can move down the tree a level.

Talent Points 16-20: Ferocity

Gimme dat Ferocity! Pet-crit is love on a stick, foshizzle. We need to dump five points here so we can move to one of the most important talents in the BM tree later.

Talent Points 21-22: Bestial Discipline

Getting our pets Focus is uber-critical, and this is the only talent we BM hunters will have that can do it for us. We’re taking this talent before all the others at this level in the tree, even our PvP-centric talent…

Talent Point 23: Intimidation

This is our only stun, so learn how to use it at the right time. When you see that Paladin getting low on health, Intimidate him before he can bubble, then burn him down before the stun wears off. It’s tricky as every Paladin has a different panic-point, but properly executed, it’ll make you giggle and that cockroach scream.

Talent Points 24-25: Spirit Bond

Once an almost laughable talent, Spirit Bond has been reworked into an important part of the BM hunter’s life. Tenacity pets have a built-in bonus-to-healing talent, but neither Ferocity nor Cunning pets do. Spirit Bond’s HoT for the hunter and pet is nice, but the 10% bonus-to-healing is what we’re primarily buying when we spend points here.

Talent Points 26-29: Frenzy

Fast attacking pets are the bane of casters everywhere. The faster our pets attack, the harder it is for them to get a spell off. Also, the faster we attack, the more crits in a given period of time will occur, thus the more times pet-crit-based talents will proc.

Now don’t get confused; Frenzy does not increase our pet’s crit chance, it decreases attack speed, which increases the number of attacks, thus we get more crits in a fixed period of time.

If our pet attacks once every two seconds and crits 10% of the time, our pet will have three crits in one minute. (60 second / 2sec/attack = 30 attacks, 10% of 30 attacks in one minute is three crits in one minute.)

If our pet attacks once every second and crits 10% of the time, our pet will have six crits in one minute. (60 seconds / 1 sec/attack = 60 attacks, 10% of 60 attacks in one minute is six crits in one minute.)

Notice that we don’t put five points in Frenzy. This is because the 80% proc rate is sufficient for our pet to keep Frenzy active permanently. Five points in Frenzy is a waste, don’t do it.

Talent Point 30: Unleashed Frenzy

Told you we’d return, and now we do. Get that fifth point in UF and be ready to keep moving down the talent tree.

Talent Point 31: Bestial Wrath

Take your I WIN button and /dance. Is there anything left to say with this one? Didn’t think so.

Talent Points 32-34: Ferocious Inspiration

One of the best BM talents gets even better; it’s now a raid-wide buff. This is a mandatory talent, foshizzle. If you’re in a raid and you don’t have this one, expect to be kicked without an explanation.

Talent Point 35: Improved Mend Pet

Now the talents get a little tricky. There are some nice talents deep in the tree we can take, like Catlike Reflexes and Animal Handler. Maybe you want to take Pathfinding so your mount is faster, which makes leveling faster. We’re going to recommend Improved Mend Pet, especially because we’ve already taken Spirit Bond. Since we’ve already increased the power of our Mend Pet once, let’s make it even better. Removing curses is awesome, especially in PvP where a warlock can easily DoT our pet to death if those DoTs aren’t cleansed.

Only one point in IMP right now, though. We want to keep moving down the tree for better and better things.

Talent Points 36-40: Serpents Swiftness

The core of the power of the BM hunter, take five points here as fast as you can. Level like crazy to get this entire package of destruction. It’s basically a 20% increase in DPS for both your hunter and your pet. It may not be the most far and away best talent in any hunter tree anymore, but it’s still number one in our book.

Talent Point 41: The Beast Within

The saucer to Bestial Wrath’s cup, this is another no-brainer talent. Discussion? No? Good.

Talent Points 42-44: Longevity

Now then, we have the biggest conundrum of the entire build, where to spend these points. Invigoration? Our testing tells us that the mana-return just isn’t big enough to justify this talent now. Cobra Strikes? It looks like a fabulous talent, but that 60% proc chance… it just isn’t high enough. Our Cobra Strikes would always proc on the last bullet we needed to kill a mob. Then we’d run around with this awesome buff on, but nothing to shoot. Very, very frustrating.

But Longevity has so many benefits we can’t turn it down. Reducing Bestial Wrath’s cooldown by 30% would be Win all by itself. But the reduction to our pet’s special attacks is just as powerful. Thunderstomp reduced from ten seconds to seven is massive. All those really cool Ferocity, Cunning, and Tenacity pet-spells get reduced as well. Just an amazing talent, really. The other two talents available here may be good, but Longevity is great.

Talent Point 45: Improved Mend Pet

Make Mend Pet as good as it can be and put the second talent point into this talent now. Could you dump this point into Pathfinding? Yeah, you could, we won’t complain, but we like a 50% chance of removing those DoTs every tick, though. Warlocks may be squishy, but they love killing hunter-pets. Just ask them.

Talent Points 46-50: Kindred Spirits

You’ll appreciate the pet-damage bonus, but it’s the 10% increased speed to our hunter that we giggle over. Jumpshot kiting is even easier when we have that extra speed to out-run Ret Pallies, Warriors, and Rogues. You may be tempted to skip these points and put them into the Marksman tree, especially if you’re already considering skipping our last BM talent point. We urge you to not follow that path. Learn to jumpshot kite, it’s not easy. But once you’re proficient at it, you’ll happily hunt Rogues and all the other melee classes that scare everybody else.

Talent Point 51: Beast Mastery

You don’t care about exotic pets, so you’re going to skip this one. Don’t. Why? Those extra four pet-talent points are godly.

Without Beast Mastery, and you have a Ferocity pet, you can have either Call of the Wild or Rabid, but not both. Put one of your talent points in Beast Mastery, though, and those extra four pet-talent points allows you to take both Call of the Wild and Rabid. That’s huge!

When we get to level 80 and the choice is between Beast Mastery and Readiness, well that’ll be a new discussion.

Talent Points 52-56: Lethal Shots

We’re delving into the Marksman tree now, as we do not recommend putting more than fifty-one points into the BM, or any tree. And +5% Crit, one doesn’t pass that up.

Talent Points 57-59: Careful Aim

Our pets get additional attack power and spell damage from our hunter’s ranged attack power. That’s part of the symbiotic relationship between hunter and pet that we love so much. When we increase our Intellect, through gear or mage buffs, we increase our RAP, which increases our pet’s damage. Wicked-cool, right? Yes, we’ll get to Mortal Shots and increasing our crit-damage in just a second, but take Careful Aim first.

Talent Points 60-61: Mortal Shots

Why not Improved Hunter’s Mark? Doesn’t that help our pet’s attack power too? No, not any more. It used to be a bonus to melee and ranged attack power, but now it’s just a RAP-bonus. The other reason we want Mortal Shots is because we’ll eventually need five points in it so we can take Aimed Shot. Put your last two points in Mortal Shots and head off for Northrend for levels seventy-one to eighty.

But that’s a post for another day.

Talents | November 11, 2008

Comments

60 Responses to “Building a 51/10/0 BM Hunter”

  1. Pike on November 11th, 2008 11:40 am

    Longevity <3. Possibly my favorite 3.0 hunter talent.

    I agree that the four extra pet talent points are simply godly. Yet I’m actually not spec’d into the Beast Master talent right now on either of my two hunters. But the way I see it is, once I do nab that talent later on down the road, after being limited for a while? It’s gonna be like Christmas! ;P

  2. Warcraft Mom on November 11th, 2008 11:45 am

    BRK, you are an answer to a prayer. I was just reading over all the newer new talent stuff trying to figure out what to do. And here it is. Thank you thank you thank you.

  3. Huntardin on November 11th, 2008 11:56 am

    Awesome job.
    I started a brand new hunter on Bronzebeard and this will help GREATLY since my hunter got lost on an abandoned account a year ago.

    ^_^ BRK gets a /ding!

  4. Lindalas on November 11th, 2008 12:01 pm

    I just don’t get it. What’s up with 51/10/00 cookie cutter? The Cookie Cutter spec is 50/11/00! Why? Because a fancy pet without focus is just a fancy pet. My kitty will out-dps any devilsaur while I’m lvl 70. Sure, we wont be 70 very long but I still don’t get all these people talking about 51/10.

  5. Jarviswabi on November 11th, 2008 12:09 pm

    Great column BRK, I was just getting ready to switch from my raiding spec to a leveling spec and this will help.

    I wondered about leveling your pets in Northrend. I have four level 70 pets right now, a cat for raiding DPS, a gorilla for leveling and FUN, a wolf that I’ve had since level 10 and a bear that I tamed just because I wanted to name him Colbear. The latter two are mainly sentimental, but the first two I’d like to have leveled with me. Is it possible to swap pets along the way and have them level at a normal pace, or will it mean getting one to 80 and then going back to grind with the other one (or three)?

  6. Yvii on November 11th, 2008 12:15 pm

    The one point in Go for the throat is a huge amount of focus generation for your pet… It may be the point you wish to invest in for your 71st level talent point.

  7. Rua on November 11th, 2008 12:26 pm

    1pont GftT is more pet dps than an Exotic with 2 top tier pet talents
    between the 2 spec, 51/10 and 50/11 my wasp saw a ~100ish dps increase.

    Now I can’t speak for the utility that lies inherent in more pet talent points, but insofar as raw pet dps, I’m sticking with 50/11

  8. Papaoomowmow on November 11th, 2008 12:27 pm

    Punctilious (apologies) comment.

    BRK, you wrote

    “Frenzy does not increase our pet’s crit chance, it decreases attack speed”

    Guessing you want to change that.

    Great column as always.
    (got a new message from spam filter…told me I was commenting too quickly so slow down…lol)

  9. Kinzlayer on November 11th, 2008 12:41 pm

    hehe, my hunter was finally going to get a look at today and here BRK answering my unasked prayer. thankie.

  10. WillM on November 11th, 2008 12:48 pm

    For a Talent Calculator View

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?hunter=052030015252120431005310510000000000000000000000000000005302000000000000000000000

  11. Baseballj on November 11th, 2008 12:57 pm

    Great post BRK. You definately gave me some food for thought. I will reconsider Invigoration and Cobra strikes for leveling, then revisit for raiding once I get to 80. Since our crit chance will be dropping dramatically as we level those talent points jsut dont make sense. Longevity will be awsome for being able to plow through mobs. Mana will still be an issue…but switching to AotV for a few shots will fix that no problem. Dont have to worry about topping the meters here :)

    As others have mentioned, I definately would go with a 49/12 or 50/10 to start with in order to get one or two points in GftT. With Longevity and the faster pet specials it will be even more important to have plenty of pet focus. I just dont think that bestial discipline will be sufficient. I am running 49/12 right now and loving it. I tear it up and pet is never starved for focus.

  12. Gentrysbear on November 11th, 2008 1:06 pm

    Would you recommend this as a leveling build too?

    Faradhim had an interesting post over at http://doctorsofphilosophy.blogspot.com/ with a 53/8 build.

    And trying to do my part:
    Here’s the 51/10 build
    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=cVbhzggRmu0eot0eM

    And the 53/8 build on the WoWHead (thank you short URL’s) talent calculators
    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=cVbhzggRmdhxst0e

    The more I look at them, I think I like the 51/10 better.

    As the BM hunter levels through, my thoughts are at level 71 and 72 get our critical Go For the Throat, followed by finishing off Mortal Shots, getting Aimed Shot, and then rounded out with 4/5 in Aspect of the Hawk (as you point out it’s effectively a 12% boost in DPS, as it’s usually procced, and pushing our attack speed).

  13. Ralowae on November 11th, 2008 1:24 pm

    http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=cVbhzggRmubest0x
    What do I loose with this? 12% crit damage and the int -> ap conversion
    What do I gain? Cobra strikes for extra pet attacks (more threat so i can dps mobs harder) and extra pet dodge for better tanking.
    I say since you can’t get GftT without loosing the BM talent, its not worth putting that much into marks. After a few levels I’ll reevaluate that, and probably go back for GftT
    With the reduced leveling XP, I’m going to try leveling with both a ferocity and tenacity pet, switching out as soon as one catches me in level. Hopefully they can keep up.
    Just my opinion and preference. Food for thought.
    Ralowae and BlackTooth, Zangarmarsh

  14. cgeorgemo on November 11th, 2008 1:33 pm

    Sorry, there was an error. Please enable JavaScript and Cookies in your browser and try again.

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    Alerting you once again BRK

  15. cgeorgemo on November 11th, 2008 1:37 pm

    There is a difference between leveling to 70 and what you run with at 70. If you give up Beast Mastery at 60 so you can start getting into MM then you are taking away 9 full levels of the extra 4 pet talent points so that you can have GftT at 70? What is the point of not taking BM? When you hit 70 and you’ve got access to GftT sure take it but seriously are you going to give it up for those 9 levels?

  16. Torgall on November 11th, 2008 1:42 pm

    Another great post BRK! This will definitely help me out with my NE Druid converted to Hunter toon who’s at level 11 right now. Don’t worry my Horde mates, I recently got a friend back into the game and his main is ally, so I need something to level with him.

    Anyway, my main is Tauren, and I’ve leveled to 65 going marks the full way (I just like the idea of blasting from range, kind of “Enemy at the Gates”-ish). I’d like to try out something new with the ally alt, so I figured I might as well see what all this Beast Master DPS stuff was about. The part I like about your post is the explanations and reasoning behind each step. Definitely makes me look at things from a different perspective. I found myself looking at the overall final outcome, as in I’ve got 61 points now where do I put them. Your post is making me approach it from a what’s most important at level 10, then at 15, then at 20… point of view.

    /appreciation

  17. Mauryl on November 11th, 2008 1:49 pm

    There’s another thing about Longevity that was not mentioned. Along with Beastial Wrath, Intimidation, and Pet Special Abilities…it reduces the cooldown on Growl. Now, I don’t know if that is considered a “special ability” or not, but having a 3.5 second cooldown on Growl is really nice in allowing us to start firing sooner without worry that we’ll overtake our pet’s threat.

  18. Chesko on November 11th, 2008 1:51 pm

    most of the math right now shows 3/5 in frenzy as more than enough to keep it up a nearly identical amount of time as 4/5. As we get closer to 80 and our crit drops I’m sure this will change, but for now until 73-74, no need to put 4 points in there.

  19. WB on November 11th, 2008 1:54 pm

    I will concur with the posts that suggest 50/11 over 51/10. The extra focus is godly and your pet will destroy everything, particularly with the shorter CD on specials.

    That might depend on a crit rate tho. A hunter that hits 70 a month from now will be in quest greens and some blues. That crit may not be high enough to take GftT over 51 pointer.

    Also, a lvl 60 should probably take the 51 point talent before moving to the MM tree. It’ll give their pets a huge bump as they hit Outlands. And again, they probably won’t have the +crit to make the GftT better than the extra damage you can pack into your pets talent trees. I’d have to think about that a little more, but I suspect that’s right.

    Finally, if you’re BM, then at lvl 72 you should be 51/12/0. The whole point of this talent build BRK proposes applies just as equally to leveling from 70 to 80 as it does for 1-60. So, the extra 4 talent points in the pet tree along with 2/2 GftT….. yum yum yum yum yum.

  20. Forboda on November 11th, 2008 2:04 pm

    Wow. That was awesome. Thanks BRK!

  21. Curtis on November 11th, 2008 2:17 pm

    There are three things that slow you down when leveling: 1) dying 2) killing stuff too slowly 3) travel. In that order. With that in mind, passing on Pathfinding is a HUGE mistake I think. 2/2 Pathfinding puts you at almost first mount speed. That’s HUGE. I spec’ed 2/2 Pathfinding until 30. Got my mount. Respec’ed. Of course the argument could be made for keeping it until 70 since it gives a boost to mounted speed as well.

  22. Harmun on November 11th, 2008 2:25 pm

    The extra focus with 50/11/0 is a good dps booster, but then you’re losing out on the utility of the exotics. I have a corehound for grinding (or pvping) casters- his special (whish is usually up with longevity) doubles their cast times. I have a chimera for kiting (single target 5 second slow, reapplies quickly) which means I can use other aspects than the pack when kiting. I have a worm for single target tanking- his acid spit is like a warrior sunder, and stacks too.

    Agreed, the dps per se of these pets is not much different than other pets in their families, but the utility is better.

    The one rebuttal I’ll accept is that the gorilla is really the only pet you need for questing (and many instances too). Multiple mob tanking on a pet built to take the hits is sick and possibly overpowered. I wish that either he was an exotic, or that there was an exotic with something similar (but a little better) to make me feel less like I wasted that 51st point ;)

  23. Jagdwarf on November 11th, 2008 2:48 pm

    I was hoping for something like this and you delivered. You are great!

    1) When PvE grinding I tend to not use my BWrath as much as I should. Plus I dont like to get killed, so would the 3 points in catlike reflexes instead of Longevity be such bad insurance?

    2) Where do the next few points go, at least until 75? Finish MS or GftT then MS?

    3) Have you mentioned a pet build to go along with this?

    Thanks again!

  24. Brian on November 11th, 2008 2:50 pm

    With regards to the 50/11 vs 51/10 builds. The question is ‘can your pet use more focus?” With the gorilla (and possibly other tank pets) you only want growl and the special to auto cast. In this case (at least with my tank pets) you should have plenty of focus. If you are using a dps pet, then the GFtT point will net you lots of extra dps.

    Also remember that this issue will go away at lvl 71 when you get the extra talent point, so it is a bit of a moot point.

  25. Brian on November 11th, 2008 2:55 pm

    @Jag
    If you are getting killed in PvE, something is not going right with your pet (see Imp Revive Pet discussion), so in that case I would not do Catlike Reflexes.

    Having said that, I duo with my wife (also hunter). She has a dps pet and I have a tank pet. I have Cat Ref for extra avoidance for the tank pet.

  26. Aerador on November 11th, 2008 3:13 pm

    Thanks for the cookie cutter build BRK. I’ve always been Marks or Survival but I may have to give this BM thing a try. ;)

  27. Shelor007 on November 11th, 2008 3:29 pm

    49/12…50/11…51/10…all of these builds have legitimate reasons to take, and will each perform well.

    There seems to be no debate at 72…51/12 without a doubt. So what about an analysis of a leveling spec 73 to 80, similar to this one?

  28. otery on November 11th, 2008 3:47 pm

    BRK? I gotta ask why not 9% dodge from Catlike Reflexes, won’t that be 9% less dmg to your pet if you can position it properly?

  29. Noah on November 11th, 2008 3:52 pm

    Thanks for the opinions BRK. Though given the contention here between 51/10 and 50/11, I’m not so sure your cookie-cutter quite lives up to your definition!

    I am taking all commentary here to heart and looking at a streamlined respec for my Hunter, but I’m a bit torn. I may be in the minority, but I bloody well love Hawk Eye. The extra range I find invaluable and tend to think that it doesn’t matter what sort of damage I can do if I can’t reach the target. It’s not terribly useful for PVE (though having that extra range for pulling the trap-marked mob is super nice) but the usefulness shines in PVP.
    I haven’t played with Kindred Spirits yet, so I’m wondering if the extra movement speed compensates or assists for quicker getting into range and retreating when needed? Would that make up a bit for the shorter, non Hawk Eyed range? I’ve been using Hawk Eye for some time, but I remember that before I picked it up I found the shorter range suffocating.

    As for the pros and cons of GFfT… I currently use a kitty pet, I keep meaning to get something else but have yet to get around to it, so I’m kind of thinking the extra focus is good. Or would I be better off putting that point into a higher rank of Kindred Spirits?

  30. Pifo on November 11th, 2008 4:48 pm

    Don’t forget ppl, this is a leveling build.

    I used BRK’s leveling build for TBC that went 41/20 without IAotH and other dps talents because this is not a raiding build, it’s a leveling build.

    Sustained survivability and decent dps is what you need when leveling.

    Thus, that’s why he goes for 51/20.

    If you want a raiding build at 80 that’s a totally different story because as it stands now, you’re gonna have to find a really huge buff to the pet talent tree or the 51 pt talent tree in order to tear hunters away from going 50/21 and speccing for Readiness.

  31. WB on November 11th, 2008 5:00 pm

    Couple of thoughts in followup. With pet stamina boost and pet armor boost, I don’t think you need the cat reflexes. Yeah, your pet may stay alive longer, but I’m of the opinion that you shuold just kill it quicker. That way, “longer” isn’t going to happen.

    Undoubtedly BRK will post a lvl 70-80 build soon. He alluded to exactly that in his post. But points 73-80 can go all sorts of places, and you need to start thinking about what your doing. PVP becomes active again at 75-80 so talents that bump that migh tbe nice. ALternatively, if you’re just cranking to lvl 80 for PVE, then maybe you continue to buff your pet’s damage. You could fill in the holes you skipped in BM after 51 points. I like the first two tier of Surv. as as well- the 5% damage for 5/5 improved tracking, then 2/2 for bigger crits on specials. Then of course filling in Marks to get Aimed shot and the +hit talent wouldn’t be a waste either. Lots of options, probably sjust a matter of picking which one you like.

    And of course, I hear there are other specs that have 51 point talents in a non-BM tree. Might be a filthy rumor though.

    /glances around quickly for Rilgon.

  32. WB on November 11th, 2008 5:03 pm

    @ Pifo - very true.

    And I dream about Readiness.
    MD BW RF KC SS SS SS SS SS SS FD Readiness MD, BW RF KC SS SS SS SS SS

  33. Curtis on November 11th, 2008 5:16 pm

    Oh, also I wouldn’t take FI until later on. Crit rate while leveling is so low that FI won’t proc much to begin with. And then it’s only you and your pet getting the buff. . . not really worth it until your pet’s crit rate is high enough to keep it up almost all the time.

  34. Gryphonheart on November 11th, 2008 6:18 pm

    Awesome guide. However, under Frenzy, you stated:

    “Fast attacking pets are the bane of casters everywhere. The faster our pets attack, the harder it is for them to get a spell off.”

    This is no longer necessarily true. Spell pushback has been reworked so that each spell cast can only be pushed back for a maximum of one second (0.5 seconds per pushback with a 2 pushback maximum), and the duration of channeled spells can now only be reduced by a maximum of 50% of the total channeling duration (25% per reduction with a 2 reduction maximum).

    So, while a fast attacking pet will certainly give you a better chance to maximize the pushback on a fast casting spell, it’s not really going to have any greater effect on that Pyroblast cast than a slower attacking pet.

  35. Nissi on November 11th, 2008 6:28 pm

    Ferocious Inspiration as a leveling talent only becomes worse as you level. Our crit rate as you yourself pointed out in a previous post.

    At 80 and raiding this talent becomes repetitive. Most if not all 25 man raid makeups will include a retribution paladin. With Sanctified Retribution and FI not stacking with each other and SR being a more stable and one button press, no cost what so ever buff for the Paladin, FI becomes a bastard stepchild. You can use these points elsewhere in order to increase your personal dps.

    One may argue that it has its uses in 5-man instances, 10 man raids where a Ret paladin may or may not be a part of your group, or even grinding and questing. It is true you take a hit in these catagories, but is the extra 3-5 seconds it takes you to kill something going to be that important while questing/farming? For 5-mans people take what they can get, and if they get a hunter without FI, then they deal. In the 10-man situation you probably should go respec into it, but in the entry level that is Naxxramas you will more than likely not need to unless your group is considerably undergeared.

  36. Paladins on November 11th, 2008 6:34 pm

    Can’t paladins bubble even when stunned? Or am I missing something …

  37. Hanhar on November 11th, 2008 8:09 pm

    have not found a site for pally’s that I feel does near the job this site does for hunters. I guess this blog is why my main alt is a hunter.

  38. Tal on November 11th, 2008 8:13 pm

    Awesome. Now if only I could find such guides for all the other classes I play. =)

    One thing about Frenzy - While more attacks for pets are, obviously, a good thing, the recent changes to spell pushback mean that it practically doesn’t make any difference against casters anymore. Spells can only be pushed back twice, and channeled spells can only lose a certain percentage of the channeling time.

  39. Grainger on November 11th, 2008 8:39 pm

    Great Post BRK! You answered the dilemma I had with about 5 of my points and now I can respec with the BRK Seal of Approval.

    Now if only we had an in-depth look at pet talents training…(cough, cough)

  40. Eino on November 11th, 2008 10:13 pm

    I disagree with not taking animal handler, 10 expertise is great. People should level with a ferocity pet, they heal themselves with bloodthirsty. I realize most people don’t have a ferocity pet with bloodthirsty because of the 50/11 spec’s lack of pet talent points but moving to a 51/10 build allows for enough. No need for spirt bond because you’re pet heals itself constantly.

    Careful aim is a must talent. Every piece of hunter gear in the expansion will have int on it. Without that talent, you’ll be losing a large amount of attack power.

  41. Ailiph on November 11th, 2008 10:24 pm

    This is a wonderful breakdown. I would love a similar breakdown specs for MM and Survival now that the patch is out, I’ve been bm forever and have no clue about the new mm stuff and no clue at all about survival ^_^

  42. Daemetos on November 11th, 2008 11:22 pm

    Thank you Gryphonheart and Tal, I saw the post earlier, and the comment about attack speed vs casters. My internet goofed when I went to post, and then I had to run off to work.

    Quote Patch 3.0.2:
    Spell casting and spell channeling pushback has been changed to the following:
    When casting a spell: The first and second hit will add .5 secs each to the cast time. All hits after the second will have no effect.
    When channeling a spell:
    The first and second hit reduces current duration by 25% of total duration each. All hits after the second will have no effect.

  43. Aussie Hunter on November 12th, 2008 12:09 am

    Thanks BRK,

    Insightful and concise as per usual.

    I have had this build since 3.0 (copied yours off the armoury :P) and have convinced more than one Marks hunter in our guild to use it as we level toward 80.

    The versatility of this build outshines any DPS increase possible by speccing one or 2 points more into Marks. Levelling is going to be a breeze using this as a base, and of course throwing a Gorilladin into the mix is going to make it volley crazy, thunderstompingly amazing.

    Keep up the good work! Without your insights I for one would still be a tard.

  44. Zutcorp on November 12th, 2008 1:18 am

    Nice writeup BRK . I´d love to see a post on how to spec pets for maximum ability.

    I´ve been having a ton of fun with my Gorilladin since 3.02 so thats the pet im taking to Northrend - where I´ll likely pick up on of those fancy new worms!

  45. Yoco on November 12th, 2008 3:58 am

    Nice writeup indeed! In this world of “hey, check my great level70/80 build” people tend to forget that you need to get to 70/80 first…

    Having leveled quite a few hunter’s myself, mostly by soloing, I slightly disagree on your placement order though. This is inspired from the viewpoint that keeping your pet up and alive is more important than maximizing your damage. The trouble point is Improved Mend Pet. No, I don’t care about the fact it heals more, but the fact that it is a free “have a chance to remove anything bad from your pet at every tick” has saved my pets uncountable times. Poisons, curses, bad majicks, whatever, IMP removes it. Personally I take those two points right away when the talent becomes available. And yes, that of course means having to delay the filling in of some other talents till later - just like in your build you delayed filling in IMP.

  46. Aelphea on November 12th, 2008 4:03 am

    So.. when you gonna do a MM build, huh huh?

  47. Alakai on November 12th, 2008 9:11 am

    Awesome post, thanks for that. Going to respec to BM for the xpac and was looking for some advice. Will try it out. Thanks!

  48. Korbn on November 12th, 2008 9:38 am

    rspecced yesterday and now I see you recommend the very spec I worked out too, so I can’t be all wrong when the great BRK come up with a similar spec.

    Thx bud for confirming my idea of a levelling spec.

    Korbn BB server EU

  49. The Lords Breed on November 12th, 2008 1:38 pm

    My only comments.

    Spirit Bond is hideous in instances for one reason. The ticks generate aggro, many many times I am in an instance, the tank pulls ( I know I know, why am I not pulling? I’m tired of teaching people so I let them pull ) and one goes for him, and the rest goes for me due to the healing ticks.

    Also, I agree that I enjoy improved mend pet. Especially for someone who likes to pvp as they level. I used a Scorpid in the 30’s range specced for attack speed, and spiked collar and charge. The one second root effect from the charge is nice, the dots are nice, and the mend pent removing fears, roots, sleep, etc is awesome.

    Last thing. Paladins can bubbled WHILE stunned. So intimidation on a paladin is ‘almost’ useless when he is low. I use it to counter spells on them, opposed to stunning them when they are low. Now, If I KNOW their bubble is down I’ll do it, otherwise it’s a waste.

  50. Amazania on November 12th, 2008 2:56 pm

    A great Spec, and actually was my leveling spec (well, minus the new 51-point stuff) while I leveled :D never really thought to put points into Careful Aim but Wow, that is a great source of AP (even though I have been known to snatch up rogue leather with no Int) I really wanted to snatch that mend pet because, well, PvP server… dead handy at times >.>

  51. Fearstalker on November 12th, 2008 3:34 pm

    Anyway you slice it, BM will be 51/12 at lvl 72.

    After that, it’s a lot more situational…

    At 80, I don’t think the readiness build will be for me. I’d rather get the tracking damage bonus in Surv, and maybe get some pet crit from Cobra.

  52. mriggs on November 12th, 2008 10:20 pm

    Would someone please explain “pet’s expertise?” (Animal Handler) I’m not sure what that implies.

  53. BRK Prepares to Level « Deep Magic on November 13th, 2008 6:03 am

    [...] Prepares to Level BRK just posted a guide to build a 51/10/0 BM hunter for leveling in [...]

  54. The Lords Breed on November 13th, 2008 1:41 pm

    @ mriggs

    It gives your pet expertise, meaning his attacks have a lower chance to be dodged and parried.

  55. Mania’s Arcania » WotLK Resources on November 13th, 2008 6:06 pm

    [...] Big Red Kitty: Building a 51/10/0 BM Hunter - I used this to respec Mania last night. [...]

  56. Majinto on November 16th, 2008 6:08 pm

    This is SOOOooooo Sweet! Thank you BRK!!!

    I was a Level 64 and got tired of being 3rd or 4th @ DPS in any instance… I was looking for the right setup and this has boosted me right back at THE TOP (even doubling DK’s). I have just gained level 65 and going strong.

    Thanks A LOT!!!

    BTW… DK’s are so overpowered… but i still can beat them LOL :D

  57. I need to respec. « Guntitan on November 19th, 2008 8:41 pm

    [...] BRK’s post Building a 51/10/0 BM Hunter. [...]

  58. Dimitry on November 27th, 2008 6:14 am

    First i would like to say that i love brk. 4 life.
    i have a 71 troll hunter named smakpil on al akir.
    i used to have this spec until i ralized this fact:
    RANGE IS EVERYTHING for a hunter
    and with 3/3 in hawk eye and 2/2 in survival instinkts u get almost as much crit as u would from mm.

  59. Solver on January 10th, 2009 2:52 am

    Nice build, copying it with one exception.

    Based on you’re earlier comments about keeping you’re pet alive over you’re already awesome dps I put the 3 points in Catlike reflexes rather than Ferocious Inspiration.

    If this was wrong for some reason please comment why. Of course once I get to raiding they can switch back. But for solo / levelling I’m not sure why you’ve chosen FI over CR.

  60. Anon on January 31st, 2009 4:26 pm

    Hunters suck!!!!