PTR Rumblings
Old and Perfectly Awesome Steady Shot:
New and Nerfed Steady Shot:
See that little change? That’s a Big Deal.
So if you have a Nesingwary 4000 (254-472 damage) and Mammoth Cutters, we can make some assumptions and see what the change looks like:
OaPASS
NaNSS
The coefficient was cut by 50%, but the total Steady Shot damage was not; it was cut by, in this case, 23.6%. This will be hunter-gear-dependent, obviously; the higher your RAP, the more noticeable the change will be.
But does this mean BRK’s DPS is going to be cut by 23.6%?! /freak-out
No. /calm-down
Why? Because while Steady Shot is a large part of our DPS, it’s not all of our DPS. Consider this:
Notice that our Steady Shot is doing 27% of our DPS. If we cut the total damage of our Steady Shot by 23.6%:
Our WWS report would look like this:
Steady Shot: 169,830
Loq Swing: 208,803
Auto Shot: 163,458
Loq Claw: 131,476
Serpent Sting: 35,289
Loq Spirit Strike: 30,592
Kill Shot: 13,457
Arcane Shot: 10,362
Total Damage = 763,267
DPS over 3′45″ is 3393, down from 3625, which is a decrease of 6.4%.
It’s not 3625DPS, but it’s still freaking nice. We’re not going to be laughed at and sat on the sidelines for a squishie to take our place.
Then consider that our Spirit Beast is getting un-borked — Spirit Strike delayed-damage done over six seconds, not ten — so his Spirit Strike will do quite a bit more damage.
And we’re getting a better Glyph of Serpent Sting — extends the duration of Serpent Sting by six seconds now, not three. That’s fewer Serpent Stings we have to fire, which saves mana, which means fewer trips to Aspect of the Viper-land, which means more pure damage and more Improved Aspect of the Hawk procs.
And our Kill Shot will be usable every 15 seconds after the target’s health has reached 20%, instead of every 35 seconds. Have you had a 10k Kill Shot crit yet? /spasm with glee
We’re getting nerfed, but it’s not the end of the world.
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Did Airman Howell Die?
So the affect that attack power has on steady shot has been halved. Does that mean us bm hunters will have to start stacking haste again, since steady shot isn’t as powerful? :O
Also, yay we can use Loque in raids now!! ^^
The Steady Shot nerf mystifies me, as it will hurt Survival hunters more than anybody else, and it will also hurt MM more than BM. By itself it doesn’t hurt BM too much, but you have to keep in mind all the various other nerfs that are coming with it…
I did some testing with my 61 BM hunter, and on my current live server I do about 600 DPS to a target dummy. On the PTR that’s down to about 400. I switched over to Marksmanship on the PTR and spent about 30 minutes playing with talent combinations and shot rotations (note that I’ve never used MM before), and I’m back up to about 550 DPS. The difference between that and BM will probably only get higher in fights that require lots of moving and PvP.
@BRK
agree …. but that’s only the small half of the nerf …. work in the pet side of things.
@Moun
Nothing has changed for BM’s haste situation.
Any news about the new Cobalt Slicer 1hander nerf?
No bug fixes for Cower, Heart of the Phoenix, etc. on the patch notes.
/grumble
It is a nerf, but I think it’s necessary.
And with the buffs to arcane shot coming (i.e same mana cost as steady shot) we have to spice up or damage rotations!
[Savage Cobalt Slicer] new stats (nerf):
189 – 353 Damage Speed 2.60
(104.2 damage per second)
+30 Agility
Durability 90 / 90
Requires Level 74
Equip: Improves hit rating by 20
Equip: Increases attack power by 40
Compared to current (live) weapon:
-14 agi
-9 hit
-20 AP
So it will be much better another option like [Fang of Truth]: easy to get, cheap, good-looking too.
i had an 11k kill shot crit today. thanks to the enh shammy totems, unleashed rage, BoK and BoM. im pretty sure i squealed at some ungodly volume…
[...] in the rough Since better minds have already been dealing with the impact of the 3.0.8 hunter nerfs, I’m instead going to [...]
So I see you’re now weaving Arcane into your rotation instead of just steady-auto. Is this the only necessary weave BM hunters will have to make or is it going to be like TBC where we threw in an Aimed/Multi and Arcane every time the CD was up?
Check again, Yari… 2 hits from Arcane throughout the entire fight. That’s hardly “weaving it into your rotation,” that’s more like using it whenever you’re on the move and don’t have time for a steady shot.
I’d like to see some math nerds work in the upcoming nerfs to the pet and to volley into these numbers. Only then will we know just how bad it is…
This raises a question I’ve had for a while. Is Serpent Sting really worth the effort? I saw someone describe it as a “toy dot” once, and my experience has borne that out. It costs a not-insignificant chunk of mana, and according to all the numbers I’ve seen (including BRK’s) since I started playing, it never amounts to more than about 8-9% of anyone’s total damage output.
I took it off my action bar completely a few weeks ago and found that my DPS was basically unchanged.
11k killshots do look great, and will be even better if we can squeeze two out on one boss
What *I* am most concerned about is the Gorilla/Volley nerf.
That didn’t really take into account ALL the nerfs. 6-8% steady shot nerf PLUS all the pet nerfs. Do it all and tell me it’s not a big nerf.
Although I’m happy to hear that Steady Shot isn’t nerfed that bad, BM still is. How much difference lies between BM & MM now? BM still, hopefully, the best dps-spec? And I’ll assume since Readiness doesn’t reset BW anymore, 51/20 will be better?
*sigh* selective interpretations again BRK? Now take into account the pet wide damage reduction, then take into account the changes to talents, then work it out again.
Im beginning to suspcet your acually playing a Death Knight and you just post this stuff so people buy your t-shirts!
You missed the bit about:
-30% volley, sad times on trash
-10% attack speed of pet (um thats 10% less dps right there)
-5% unleashed fury (yup, another 5% less dps)
-5% kindred spirits (yes! another 5% less dps)
Its not 3393, down from 3625. Its probably more like 3059 which would be 15.6% drop at those numbers. 10% fewer crits might do even worse to the pet dps though so its not going to be a small reduction.
Great. Not only do we have a hunter nerf, but they are going to nerf my cobalt slicers, too?? WTF! I have about 600 gold tied up in mine with enchants…..#@$@
You forgot that pets r getting nerfed to so our pet dps wil be alot lower
Ty for the calculations i was rly freaking bout the steady shot nerf
Would anyone be able to tell me how to find out what my “unmodified weapon damage” is ?
Did a 11k kill shot on Onyxia at lvl 72 loved it
10k? I get 10k Kill Shot crits when soloing.
Try 16.5k.
And a nitpick – ammo is DPS, not strict damage like you give it there. To be more accurate, “plus ammo” means $AMMO_DPS * 2.8 (since all special attacks were normalized to a 2.80 weapon speed).
Also, unless you’re the only Hunter in your raids, why are you using Glyph of Serpent Sting? You ought (IMO) to be using Glyph of Aspect of the Viper if you have a Marksmanship Hunter supplying nigh-indefinite stings – Glyph of Steady Shot works off of any Hunter’s sting.
How are you sure of that? On ElitistJerks they tested it, and it doesn’t. Steady Shot glyph only affects your own sting.
No, actually it’s all covered here: http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/12/10/bigredkitty-its-hunter-pinata-time/
This post was specifically about Steady Shot. Just because we don’t cover all fourteen points of a massive PTR in one post, doesn’t mean we’re being “selectively interpretative”. /frown
We don’t use the Glyph of Serpent Sting, but we might if we continue to not have a MM hunter and, because we have a raiding ret pally, switch 3/5 of Efficiency into 3/3 Improved Stings.
Very true. Trying to simplify to cut down on math sometimes causes inaccuracies. Our apologies.
Wow Insider had an article up on the other day regarding a post ghostcrawler had recently made suggesting that Hunters might get a major buff to their melee abilities…
The Wow Insider article:
http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/12/11/gc-the-new-deterrence-is-for-arenas/
Ghostcrawler’s post:
http://blue.mmo-champion.com/28/13392250901-gc-developer-thinking-on-new-deterrence.html
I was dead set against the nerf’s but after reading BRK’s analysis, and taking GC’s Melee statements into account I’m all for it. Hunter melee as it currently stands isn’t very useful in pvp situations at the best of times. I’ll gladly accept a little DPS nerf in exchange for a little more melee action.
I think to work out the unmodified weapon damage is the number between ( lets take the Nessingwary 4000 for example ) 254 -472
i could be wrong
orly? Because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it worked in beta.
/nodnod It happens. Trust me, I know all about making mistakes and eating crow later.
Since our group and raid buff is being tweaked, not just steady-
It be nice to know if the dps we bring is still worth a slot over other specs?
… I am starting to grow attached to my exotics, and would like to stay beast. I want to be able to help my friends tho.
So how does it all come together on the ptr so far BRK? Is BM still the better group dynamic spec or did the cut make the others more desirable? Yes I know if you love something like SV you can make it work, but I wouldn’t ask that of my friends.
Rilgon, try it out… It should be a pretty cheap glyph anyway. You will be surprised I think.
In any case Serpent Sting is more damage than any BM shot anyway. So for damage it is worth it. Especially when buffed now.
Like bloody hell it is, there’s only three scribes on Steamwheedle with it and they ALL charge 250g for it. That’s WITH mats.
And it’s busted for MM Hunters, anyways. /sigh
Dang, what’s up with all those comments that basically says “As long as BM is the best and MM & SV isn’t, I’m still happy.”
C’mon, you BC BM babies. BM ruled in BC… but BM didn’t always rule – as shocking as this is, MM actually ruled before BC came out (and SV in PVP).
You ask me, it’s only fair that SV have their turn to rule (though as a MM hunter, I’d love for the BM hunters to STOP WITH THE STUPID SPEC RIVALRY).
Now, @ BRK: that’s interesting. I’m glad it’s not the end of the world for you BM lovers. =)
I agree that we’re not getting gutted. However, we *are* being nerfed to levels that I fear (and not without justification) will put us under:
- HaT Rogues
- Warriors
- Frostfire Mages
- Boomkins
and
- DKs
That’s troubling.
Are you ignoring the entire time between 1.7 and 2.0 when basically everyone but me was 0/21/30?
Don’t care so much about MM or SV ‘ruling’
Pure and simple, Ive fallen in love with the rhino and worm exotic pets, particularly the ice variant for its pure weirdness. (May have to try a silithed).
Hence why I hope BM doesn’t fall bellow, but maybe all become abit more even? it would mean having to give them up. :/
The steady nerf appears small from the breakdown you show, but when we switch to Viper to mana up, the length of time in viper increase, lowering our DPS (and time out of hawk) a bit further.
I agree that looking at all of the 3.08 hunter nerfs in one post is a farce, or a novel, but many of the changes do effect others.
Pet speed decreases leads to less pet crits leads to less FI …
Extending the sting length is nice, but it’s really not going to be a boost of any large proportion since as Rilgon mentioned, any MM hunter in the party will be the one keeping the sting up.
The volley nerf will mainly hurt the leveling speed of casual players (the ones not at 80 already), and make clearing trash a bit more of a nuisance.
I’m not saying that the sky is falling and with 3.08 hunters will be left behind in raids, but I do agree with Chromaoran, that our damage will drop a good 15% or more and hunters may no longer be leading the DPS race. The players hurt by this will be the semi-casual players getting raid ready, but who do not have a raid spot secured already. These players are going to be passed over for a Boomkin, Back-stabber, Fury/Arms Warrior, or Fire Mage. Especially because of the risk involved with bringing a hunter of unproven skill.
Anyone can wipe a raid, but hunters can do it so much more easily that the greater DPS made the risk more worthwhile. A well played hunter will eventually get a raid spot, but it will be after a mediocre played mage or boomkin.
I was under the impression that BM was the PvE raiding spec, and MM and SV were better for PvP. My “vote” is to buff MM and SV with a PvP slant and call it a day. If you HAVE to nerf something, then go ahead and scale back volley…
No. If anything, we need to get AWAY from making balance decisions based on PVP. It’s ruining the game as it is.
The steady shot nerf may seem small in PVE, but in PVP in BGs it’s going to be huge, as it is extremely difficult for hunters to kill plate-wearing melee classes or druid bears as it is even when we can stand still and open up with both barrels including steady shot. But once melee gets in range, they rip us to pieces in seconds. Nerfing our ranged DPS and giving us increased melee ability isn’t going to help us against melee classes by much. If you are in melee range of a warrior, DK, ret pally or druid, you are dead and increased melee damage merely means you will do slightly more damage before you die.
In PVP what hunters need is the ability to get and stay at range, as well as more burst damage for BM hunters. We don’t need more keybinds for more melee abilities that will surely be convoluted or conditional, like raptor strike requires a melee swing before it can be used or the new deterrence requires you face the opponent. We need to be able to fire our weapons at point blank range and then escape, and we need to be able to auto-shot on the move, and that is something Blizzard will never give us because they do not want hunters to be viable in PVP. If they did, we would get useful set bonuses to our PVP gear, not 2 seconds off our traps, or 2 seconds off our useless tranquilizing shot, which is a joke compared to the 5 seconds off intercept warriors are getting.
This will hurt us in PVE also, particularly when it comes to getting slots in PUGs. I was in LFG the other night and there was a 4-man group in LFG specifically looking for DPS for Heroic Halls of Stone. It was late so it was just them and me in the queue, but they didn’t select me. Fifteen minutes passed and they still hadn’t selected me, but the instant a mage showed up in the queue, they grabbed him.They would rather wait an extra fifteen minutes to grab someone else than grab a hunter. I could see why they would want a mage over a hunter as frost nova rocks in that place, as it does everywhere, and our CC sucks and is too difficult and unreliable for most hunters to use effectively.
While it is way, way easier to get in PUGs now than it ever was in BC, a lot of the old “huntard” prejudice still remains and it will be a lot harder to get in groups when we are being our-DPSed by everyone, as we surely will with these nerfs.
Hunter’s don’t heal or tank, so ultimately all 3 trees have to be about doing damage. Right now, Hunter’s do two things really well: leveling and PvE raiding. Both of those tasks are best done by a BM hunter specifically. So what area does the hunter not do all that well? PvP.
I looked up the statistics for the composition of +2000 rated arena teams a couple of months ago. From a hunter prospective, it was depressing. There was low hunter representation 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5.
If they nerf BM and buff SV and MM then we’ll all just switch spec’s in order to do exactly what we’re doing now, and we’ll STILL suck at PvP. I can live without PvP, but for those hunter’s who want to do it, I’d like to offer better advice than “roll a DK”.
@ Rilgon: Oh, I forgot about that. Lol. I started in Dec 2005, so I missed that time period, though I did heard about it.
All the same, 1.7 to 2.0… much shorter compared to the entire BC championship for the BM tree.
I still stick by what I said before – SV shone way back when we have a LOT less players (and therefore, SLIGHTLY less elisits – I don’t enjoy them, either), and about 90% of the player population were born when BC came out (this is not serious. Don’t take the number seriously. I don’t know the exact numbers), and while BM ruled, MM isn’t too shabby. SV? Poor thing needs some lovin’.
So to me, BM have a long time to rule. MM got a decent amount of time to rule, but SV didn’t have a lot of rulin’ time.
(Personally? I’ll LOVE for MM to be the rulers, but I respect my fellow hunters, whether they be BM or SV.)
Heya man,
Good analysis but not great, steady shot nerf will be much more than 23.6% as the time passes and you get more AP and gear. it will go up to 50% or even more.
And I hope u dont forget about the pets nerf which I think will hurt us all. – And readiness not affecting BW is a major thing.
Conclusion – This patch will be not only BM hunters nightmare, but all hunters as well.
The PTR has been making me mad. I wasn’t in the beta (was not lucky enough to get a key). So I can’t participate in the PTR because currently, my account snapshot on the PTR is still listed as a BC account. So all my characters over 70, plus my deathknight, give an error to contact billing because they’re locked.
Also I can’t post in the test forums, presumably also because I wasn’t in the beta.
I have been playing a hunter for quite some time now and was finally happy with my BM spec. I was viable in raids and dungeons my DPS was the higher than ever and the monkey used with volley made leveling and farming tolerable. That’s it I am rolling a DK.
As a spec used to sacrificing damage output for utility, the steadyshot nerf makes us /shrug.
However, on the flipside, we’re all kinds of /flail over the new Killshot change. Makes those of us with that 3/3 sniper training feel totally vindicated :3
In my mediocre heroic blues and a few pieces of 10man naxx, I’ve been getting 13k+ killshots.
What’s that you say? A shorter cooldown? Yes PLZ!!!
what mod is featured here???