More Pot-Stirrin’
We need to get our friend to re-register his guild as Aetherial Circle in WoW Web Stats. /sigh
Sartharion is a beyotch for BM hunters. Our pets — yeah, we said OUR PETS! — can’t take the fire-wall’s DoT, even with every defensive talent and bonus-to-healing thing we stack on. We’ve got to pull our death-machine pet out of the fight with us to the holes in the fire-walls. And when we do that, a BM hunter’s DPS stinks.
Meanwhile, SV hunters pull our 300DPS-pet out of the fight, but keep our 3000DPS rotations going. If we have Hawk Eye, we can keep ripping that dragon into pieces from as far away as the southern tip of his island.
But as you see from this report, it’s not the spec that ensures an SV hunter maximizes his DPS. A BM hunter can easily keep up with an SV hunter who isn’t slamming Explosive Shot at every opportunity. The player makes the spec, foshizzle.
Let’s look at some of the players, shall we?
BM hunter with a Spirit Beast… it makes us wistful, it certainly does. Look how much Steady Shot stinks. It used to be 40% of our DPS, now our poor, fellow BM hunter has to make do with 26% combined Arcane-Steady. Just pathetic. These nerfs are Way. Too. Much. Period.
Explosive Shot is the sizzle in our pan, baby! But poor Hobbes… poor, poor Hobbes.
We’re going to be modifying our spec a bit. Improved Stings is going bye-bye. So too is Aimed Shot.
We’re going to try 4/16/51, taking 2/3 in Focused Aim so we can equip our Wraith Spear instead of the one-handers we’ve had to equip for boss fights. And then it’s 4/5 in IAotH for giggles.
Just because everybody and their orcish grandmother is bellowing 2/18/51 does not mean you shouldn’t try stuff out for yourself, and make your spec fit your gear, your testing data, and your raiding encounters.
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30 Responses to “More Pot-Stirrin’”
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I so much loved your last comment!
Way to go!
PS: No i’m not leaving my (SP) Phoebos for the Boom-shot. Not just yet.
I dont really like looking too much at all those numbers for too long but i am finding even with the changes and having tried out survival spec (and using only 2/3 lock and load and waiting 2seconds between each blast of explsove shot when the lock and load procs as i hope everyone is doing) I am finding i do a lot more dps with BM spec with devilsaur than survival. And just yesterday I almost matched the dps of a much better geared survival hunter on 25 man sartharon (and yes i was pumping out much higher dps than him on the trash and drakes)
Speaking of experimenting, I put rockets on my gloves instead of agility or AP and, as long as I remember to fire it once a minute, it’s a DPS increase over the agility enchant. Of course, rockets don’t scale with buffs, but they’re ROCKETS!
No matter what anyone says, there’s no single spec now that’s been clearly tested as being somehow better. Do what works for you.
@ roo:
Your saying that you did more dps as a BM than as a survival hunter yet you only had 2/3 in LnL, I’d hate to see the rest of the spec.
I agree with the last sentence in your post BRK. Anyone can go to EJ and copy a spec, but you don’t learn anything. You learn about the class by experimenting, finding a build and synergy between your play style, gear, and the talents themselves. For example: I hate aimed shot. But my shot priority for marksman goes: Kill shot > Chimera Shot > Arcane Shot > Aimed Shot > Steady Shot. I think by taking out aimed shot from my priority line up and moving the point elsewhere, I can possibly improve my dps by relying in Imp. steady shot procs bumping up the damage for chimera and arcane but at my current gear level, I’d lose the punch that aimed currently gives me.
I read a post on the forums yesterday that said that just because someone can copy a cookie cutter spec, doesn’t mean they still can’t be completely bad at their class. One of the smartest things I have read on the forums in a long time. (WoW forums that is)
awesome post brk.. But do remember to cap hit manually. Focused is not giving hunters any hit right now.
For Sapphiron, there is an easy way to keep your pets alive and fighting.
Spec your pet with 2/2 Bloodthirsty and 3/3 resists, keep Mend Pet up as often as possible, and when you’re behind an iceblock, pull him with you and bandage him.
Eidan was alive, kickin’, and doing 600dps on Sapphiron, and I didn’t even have all points in his resists.
For Sartharion, keep the resists and Bloodthirsty, keep him on Passive but attacking, and when the wave approaches, set him to follow you (he’ll dash), and run THROUGH the hole in the waves instead of sitting in it – your pet will trail behind you instead of standing to the side, and you can send him right back in to DPS. A bit harder than Sapphiron in terms of management, but certainly possible, and easy with a bit of practice.
You’re right about messing around with specs, BRK. When I first went SV, i’ll admit it…I just copied the 2/18/51 spec you posted. It was ok, and doing some nice DPS, but anything having to do with my pet felt gimped.
I worked around with the tree a little bit, and came up with my new 9/11/51 spec.
BM 5 IAotH 2 Focused Aim 1 Thick Hide 2 Imp. Revive Pet 1 Aspect Mastery
MM 5 Lethal Shots 4 Mortal Shots
SV The same 51 points as previous from your build.
I’m doing the same DPS as before, but I feel that this gives my pet a little extra something.
@ Tinuviel
Experimentation is all very well, but you say your pet feels “gimped”, yet in your new spec you’ve got 0/2 in Go For The Throat – meaning your pet is going to be focus starved; also, not taking careful aim halved the utility of intellect as a stat, and it is on almost all the gear you are likely to be using.
http://wowwebstats.com/fxs63at4v6t2e?s=18842-57298&a=xcbd7f6
This is with the 3/17/51 survival spec you had showcased recently, and having a Wasp as my pet. BIG damage increase over BM, which I loved until the Great Hunter Nerf of ‘09.
Thanks, BRK!
[...] Your Own Strength. 28 01 2009 I was looking at BRK’s latest post and was surprised to find that despite his being SV and his guild’s top DPS in a 25-man, [...]
“The player makes the spec, foshizzle. – BRK”
Isn’t this the truth? I think we all know that a bad player with the “IT” spec is still a bad player.
Unfortunately, when this happens, the entire class seems to get blamed instead of an individual player. (At least from what I’ve seen).
I have a dream.. A dream that allows the BM Hunter to raid alongside the SV and MM Hunters.
A dream that ALL hunters are equal in their damage and DPS.
I have a dream that one day, Hunters will be accepted in all raids, regardless of their spec. I have a dream!!
Brigwyn-I have the same dream, not just for our class but for all the pure DPS classes
(~5% or less variance between specs is acceptable)
Anymore, all I feel is frustration and confusion, not genuine anger – I save the anger for the moron who breaks a trap too early in the daily heroic. Last evening, while considering the switch to Surv, I thought through all the possible ramifications, for me, personally, it would require entirely re-learning the class – I began originally at level 10 BM specced with a cat and remained true to that spec and that same pet all the way through end game. So while, I do not think I can discount the advantages, and, in fact, embrace the opportunity, of rounding out my hunter by learning all the various specs, as we all know, it was still very difficult to throw, in essence, 18 months of perfecting my character (at least in my mind). I’m the first to say that I don’t have the best gear, I’m not in the best raiding guild, not the best PvP’er out there or even the best BM hunter out there. But, you know what, when it came to nut-crunching time, I knew how to play with my spec and gear – and 9 times out of 10 that was good enough to avoid the wipe, kill the enemy or grind the levels.
So, for the betterment of the group as a whole, I accept the nerf, re-spec and commit myself, in reality, to relearning 80 levels of trying to perfect my ability to play my class and spec. For what, again? To hear GC say, “hmm, we might of made a mistake”. To which I really have no response other than saying, thanks. Thanks a lot! Thanks for forcing me to consider (and, ultimately, embrace a) changing to a spec such that, in essence, makes all of the hours spent playing my character/spec to learn techniques that would allow me to enjoy end game to the fullest and at the highest levels, inconsequential and wasted and undone solely by the mere whim of the powers that be – only to be undone, upon acceptance of that change by yours truly, by changes back towards the original design. Bah! So, yes, rejoice those that need to rejoice. I, however, am too busy re-learning a class to experience anything other than frustration and confusion at the ineptitude of those in control.
as a healer i hate bm hunters, I hate your pets soaking up AOE heals, even though doomed anyway, DON”T STAND in the red stuff!!! oh wait thats an nps sucking heals from my ret pally mana battery… or my survival hunter mana battery…
start looking at what you TAKE away from the raid instead of giving 300 lousy dps, to it specced bm.
To which I reply, next time you AOE heal, I won’t send my mini-tank pet to relieve you of your aggro problem. Sorry, still frustrated – nothing personal.
Phlegger-Don’t worry about sharkeater. I’ve seen his posts on Wowinsider. He’s just a d-bag and is definitely not in the right place.
say what ya like, and I have no problem with my fade button or keeping myself up.
I stand by what I said. ya’ll are a drain on the raid. spec survival and quit gimping your raids.
Thanks for the advice but I’m marks. I don’t need a pet to dps
And besides, if your melee is taking so much damage that AoE healing bouncing to a pet instead of a player is causing them to die, then you have bigger problems with your melee.
Nah, it comes down to propping up and waste. I’m continually dumping little prop up heals to a doomed pet, ok ret pally giving replentishment and rocking dps is down 5k health, oh wait cuddly the kitty gets the bounce becasue its standing in the fire… oh shit I need to quick make sure that pally or rouge or some other usefull class is taken care of. instead of regenning mana, tossing sumt on the tank, or tossing up a dot myself.
oh look cuddly the kitty just died anyway, and now the bm hunters dps sucks.
if I want a nice cozy spec I’ll have to go discipline, hmm thats single target, not healing bm tards or their pets may be worth it. think i’ll play selfish too! thanks for the advice =)
Holding my nose, I respec’ed SV, and thus far… I love it.
I feel like me again (me in my BM glory days). Curious thing about this, is
that I still feel like I’m BM spec’ed… just with a ’splodey shot instead of steady.
I think SV is a misnomer for the spec we’re all migrating to. Nothing
about this build suggests what I have in mind when I think of a “survivalist”.
No points in melee, and not much in trapping? Pet’s still important?
None if any CC demands.
If it acts like BM and does MQoSRDPS like BM, it must be BM. If I could only take points out of the immo trapping… and get BW.
Given that Ayamiss was about 600 DPS of my 3400 DPS on Patchwerk 10 last night, I wouldn’t say that personally. MM pets are still very important and precious.
@BRK
Just make sure to post your new dps stats once you have finished with your talent build. I use Aimed Shot everytime its up and do decent damage with 2 points in Hawk.
I know you can stack more AG gems and less hit if you put more points in Focus Aim but will you drop or go up in dps when you compare the dps in relation to points in Aimed Shot and Improved Sting.
Kind of like asking how well does a 16 Agility gem stack against a 16 AP/8Crt gem.
Hey i was just wondering what is your rotation for SV im only doing like 2500dps or less on 25mans and i was doing a ton more when i was BM before the patch.
My story with Hunter:
I created a hunter while WotLK was still in beta in a push to get to 70 before the expansion was released. Having heard about all the cool changes to the BM spec, I levelled the whole way as BM, and thought it was fun. I got the expansion a whole month after it was released as I was still in school and wanted to focus on that before burying myself in WotLK goodness. Once I got the expansion, another big push, this time to 80. It took me a week to get to 80.
Once I was 80, I did heroics, and the majority of the time, topped the meters as BM with relative ease geared in greens and blues. Having to only do steady shot and serpent sting and watching your pet do almost as much damage as you, is not really that exhilarating.
Then came 3.0.8, and I heard SV was going to get buffed, and BM nerfed. So I switched like many of the other hunters. I now regret I was SV to begin with. Survival is so much more involved and fun than BM ever was. I don’t see how you can feel accomplished, topping the meters as BM when there’s hardly anything to do when playing the spec and topping the meters.
As SV, if you miss your cooldowns and don’t pay attention, you won’t top the meters. As BM (pre 3.0.8), you could just sit back and spam steady shot and most of the time you’d be top dps. I’d rather earn that spot playing SV, than relaxing back, drinking a beer, watching a movie, while talking on the phone and spamming one button over and over, and still topping the meters.
As for pet choice as SV, it really doesn’t matter as much as BM. I’m using a raptor right now, but I’m thinking of getting a wasp for the armor debuff it brings when there are no druids in the group. It’s not only about increasing your own dps, but the whole raids DPS. Specs like MM/SV bring a lot more utility than BM, especially with the change they did to “Call of the wild”.
1st of all GZ for this site! Love your RSS feed in Google Reader.
Also went SV with 3.0.8 because it rocks. SV was my playstyle in 2005 and had to go MM/BM since dmg procced much better. Currently have 4/18/51 without noxious arrows (don’t see the point of it in raiding).
Keep the good work!
Kaçador@ Grim Batol (EU)
I should probably also mention that I don’t play to switch back to BM if they buff it back up again. I really enjoy SV now that I’ve switched to it.
“Our pets — yeah, we said OUR PETS! — can’t take the fire-wall’s DoT”
Is wrong. They CAN take the dot and survive just fine. The exception is of course 3 drakes when the +100% fire damage debuff 3-shots them.