Rejoice A Little
Read it and… well ‘weep’ isn’t right, but you may relax that jaw you’ve been clenching for a week now.
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Thank god…
hurrah hurrah!
Thank goodness!
Ok so I get the buff back to BM, but what about MM? Are they just completely ignoring it? I mean he said it right there, “BM and MM are broken,” yet all he says after that is “well we’ll buff BM then.” But what about poor MM? I remember back in the day when MM was really the ONLY spec to choose, and yet for the past year I haven’t seen three MM hunter on my server. BUFF MM.
Uh, GC actually said there that MM is where they want it to be.
Good. Well needed, IMO.
Whether or not they get it RIGHT this time, we’ll see.
The spam filter monster ate my post but the crux of it was:
woo!
BMFTW
Yay! Yay! and more yay!
*doing a snoopy happy dance*
If they are admitting the mistake, they must realize it was a huge one
/cheer
Ima happy.
Touch survival and you lose a hand, boyo! I’ve been survival since Lacerate was our 41 point skill, and finally it’s our time to shine.
Wow, let’s just hope they do it soon
I don’t want them to nerf SV, but I hope they fix BM soon!
I agree everyone needs their “time to shine” but it can’t last forever! Let’s just get some balance in here! As for myself, I’m sticking with BM till the end! Long live hunters, and long live Loque! LOL
It frustrates me to see things like this.
Six or more weeks ago, people said this exact same thing, and Blizzard said “well, your numbers are meaningless for x, y, and z reasons.” Dozens of people trotted out theoretical numbers, PTR numbers, &tc, and Blizzard did nothing. Finally, after over a week of the patch being live, they say the same thing we’ve been saying all along.
It’s the classical comic villain/henchman routine. Henchman says, “Hey boss, why don’t we try dynamite?” and the villain replies, “I’ve got it! Why don’t we try dynamite?”
It makes us poor henchmen feel ignored.
Thank you Arukusanagi
I like survival where it is…no touchy.
I made my comment, complete with WWS parses, for a Nax-25 run comparison between BM and SV on page 54 of that thread…feel free to read and comment.
Basically I feel SV is way then anything else in mobile fights, especially where the boss will travel over the same point you’re forced to be at by the encounter mechanics (read: Heigan, Malygos), and are still significantly stronger in tank and spank fights…it’s imbalanced. That, and SV feels easier then the “new” BM.
@NickS
I agree with what you’ve said but happy they are going to reverse some of the changes.
What I cannot understand is if their numbers are so right why do they get things so wrong all the time? Either their models are faulty or their in-house testing is poor. It’s hypocrytical for them to continue to say they don’t trust player numbers given to them when their own track record leaves a lot to be desired.
Cannot say im surprised as the great hunter nerf was er well a bit harsh to say the least.
Nerf GC…to tha ground!
I have been BM since the start of Burning Crusade and I switched to survival 3 days ago. I was reluctant at first but now that I have gotten used to the change I am enjoying survival a lot. I hope they don’t change it. BM was getting a little bland.
yea after I change to Surv I learn a very different way to play hunter. Explosive shot is a great burst shot and trap/LnL makes it works. I admit that I enjoy hunter with surv and bm. Very happy that now we hunter got choices!! It is the best of hunter era.
It’s quietly hilarious seeing the posters on the Official Forums not understand GC’s point. He is comparing SV damage with every other class/spec on their internal server from the future:
“once we look at the changes we are making to all other classes”
They reply with SV is fine, buff everything to that level. GC explains:
“They are comparing themselves to relative not absolute numbers.”
And they still complain.
What he is saying is that the %age damage vs other classes from SV is fine right now, but everyone else is being tweaked DOWN in the near future, and that when that happens SV looks too good in pure damage terms (ie 3000 dps vs 2600 dps from other classes or something).
Hence SV will be tweaked down, BM will be tweaked up – both to near MM which is where they are saying everyone else is sitting once their changes are made.
So rejoice, all classes, even lesser ones, are getting tweaked down. Except BM, it’s been hit too hard and gets tweaked up a little.
Right.
We all knew this.
On paper the nerf looked bad, but hey its only paper.
But when logging in on patch day and seeing how impossible it is now, staunch defenders of the Beastmaster tree turned away in disgust. Still, I’m glad Ghostcrawler admitted it and it has nicely prodded me into the Survival tree to have some fun with a vastly different play style. Buffing the hunter through Serpent’s Swiftness seems like a good plan and it keeps the focus on the pet, which is where it should be. Kindred Spirits I’m not too sure about. I’d prefer those talent points only to benefit “white attacks” since that’s so much easier to balance (all the pets of the same tree should have the same “white damage”). The pet specials often seem to cause balancing issues for Blizz and I sure don’t want an OP Scorpid and Cat again (OP Loki however is fine ^^)
3.08 Hunter nerfs on these two specific abilities
# Serpent’s Swiftness now increases pet’s melee attack speed by 2/4/6/8/10%. (Down from 4/8/12/16/20%)
# Kindred Spirits now increases pet’s damage by 3/6/9/12/15%. (Down from 4/8/12/16/20%)
Now only hope they don’t start over-nerfing Survival. I’ve had fun playing and testing this and it’s a nice change from BM. Whoever says BM was EZ-mode hasn’t tried to manage a pet through all the Naxx fights and avoid it dieing. Still, the interesting Survival Rotation is a ton of fun and a nice change of pace.
BTW…am I the only one who has simply thrown Volley in the bin for pulls that aren’t 10+ mobs? I’m simply focussing single target DPS with the Explosive Shot rotation. Aimed for single targets, multi whenever there is more then one. And yes the meters look fine.
One good thing about 3.0.8 is that it caused me to become a better hunter. Rather than switch to SV, I stuck with BM and worked with my rotation and playstyle to try and get the same numbers I was getting before the patch. It was hard work, but I got myself back on top of the damage meters. Once the restrictor plate comes off, I will be a way better hunter than I was before it happened.
OMG.
Actually am crying a little here, I am soo happy. It’s been a really, really rough few days (not just the nerf but that was part of it) and I really needed something like this to brighten my mood.
Thank goodness. It’s going to be okay.
So, BRK… back to BM?
And absolutely agree with Ovation. I learned new things, this last week.
Even with the nerf, I haven’t ran a 5-man yet where I haven’t been top, save for that first day. I was even on top of a 25-man for all but the final boss, and I was fifth on that (Sartharion kills pets like I kill flies). Potentially getting buffed back up is absolutely AWESOME
.
Specced MM I’ve been #1 on recount when killing the Lunar Festival “raid” boss. 15 people were fighting him… Don’t ask me HOW I could ever top the meter.
YAY! We all knew this but having Blizz admitted this is a good thing. i dont know why they do this but am glad they are saying is a error nd hopefully be able to rectify it. ON a positive note i have enjoyed fiddlign with my spec and trying out the 51/18 and also playing in a different way. Challenges can be good but even better when it is reocgnised a stuff up has been made. I love the BM spec, always have always will so am pleased they are going to review this nasty nerf. Thanks for advising us – made my wow day
I guess they got a new dart board.
Again.
I’m with Thorkas, I hope they also reverse some of the Volley nerf as well, it’s hardly worth the mana using it now especially when druids and mages can AoE for heaps more.
Gotta say , its real good news . What i dont understand thou is as soon as hunters are seeing good dps they decide to tweak us down. I have been BM hunter for ages , and now i switched to survival , dam cant they just leave us alone
Now what did i say
Blizzard will apologize and fix what they have done to BM , just in due time
From your Lord and Master
Zalenna , Last of the Beastmasters
:: does a little dance ::
Volley is fine. When hunters can spam volley and top meters over the true AoE classes, that’s a problem. No one cared we couldn’t AoE in BC, why does it matter now all of a sudden?
Now I can swap back and forth between MM and BM without feeling neutered. SoulPuma will get to see daylight again.
It matters because the game style has changed, with AoE and AoE tanking becoming much more important nowadays.. we’re talking about those raid invites again.
This whole situation is interesting.. why did Blizzard decide to alter course.
Is it because they saw one of the main proponents of BM hunting publicly convert to SV and realise the PR was horrible,
or is it because they realised that SV is just as effective now as BM was before the patch and wanted to keep us all in our place?
i love BM and SV so ill prolly be switching but since there going to buff BM i can look for my spirit beast now! Hoorah!
Time for dual specs…fo’ shizzle!
Well, well, well…GC admits an error? I love it!
I respecced MM for a few days and the crits were great! But really (as I have said before) BM is about the PET as well as the talent tree.
We love our pets, instead of changing Volley or SS (again) leave them alone and give our pets back to us the way they should be.
Kiss my grits, GC. You had every opportunity to do this right, and you screwed it up so badly. I’m thinking liar, not just idiot, especially with the so-called fix so far off.
Isn’t the job of the PTR to find imbalances such as this? Is this a case of the nerfs not being tested enough on the PTR, or did Blizzard just choose to ignore all the PTR feedback and go ahead with the changes anyway?
I wouldn’t be surprised if the reason was somewhat related to what Ovation learned. Yes, they overall dumped BM’s damage, but that was the point. But they also changed up a few other things to try and draw people into finding a new rotation that was more complex then facerolling SS, and thus giving close to the original DPS. And then they just noticed that most people weren’t bothering to try and find the new rotation, so now they’re going to make it a little easier.
That and it’s possible that something didn’t carry over quite right, or that they made assumptions that players weren’t following.
to quote a guildie:
“What aggravates me is that for six weeks people posted numbers from the PTR, saying, “This nerf is too much.” Blizzard’s response was “your numbers don’t jibe with our numbers, shuddup silly testers.”
Now a week after it’s on the live servers here’s Ghostcrawler with “erm yeah, we overdid it hehe. “. Duh, Sherlock. What good is the PTR if they just ignore what we do there?”
I saw this and rejoiced…just a little…
WTF is going on at the quality control department at Blizzard. First they gut BM spec for raiding and buff SV. Now they claim to have overdone SV and admit they over-nerfed BM.
I was disappointed when they nerfed BM so I made the switch to SV ( was MM to 70, and specced BM for raiding) which to my surprise I thoroughly enjoy. Please Blizzard leave hunters alone for a while and go mess with some other class.
I think GC just told us that there’s no point in going on a PTR to test the new stuff.
This makes my day! Thanks BRK. I really hope they don’t nerf SV as it had finally came in to it’s own. It was good to see SV as such a strong build.
“What good is the PTR if they just ignore what we do there”
You are confused, the Public Test Realm is not for “Testing”, it’s not for trying to figure out what to do, or examining issues before they go live
It’s the Public Teaser Realm, for showing you what they already decided to do.
Dont’ worry they’ll overnerf/buff again. It’s like trying to tune in a weak radio station, most of us will move the knob slightly , listen, move it slightly more. Blizzard grabs that knob with a big meaty hand and turns it all the way to the right. It can’t hear the station, so it spins it all the way left. That doesn’t work, so let’s turn it as hard as we can to the right again! That’s the Blizzard turning model.
For all you youngin’s we used to have knobs on our radios instead of little left and right buttons.
This really isn’t that new though. If you follow all of GC’s threads there were constant hints and inuendos of a change coming.
Heck, he even stated earlier (not sure that thread or another) that the entire Hunter Class was being “re-balanced” come 3.1 (Ulduar).
I’m crossing my fingers and hoping that we’ll see all the specs close enough within reason.
What I really hate is the rampant PUG biasness happening again. It’s like BC all over again.. Not the “IT” spec, sory can’t come… this is worse than anything IMHO.
Yunk, I see your radio knobs and raise you my rotary phone!
So, here are hunters again, much like BC. Every time they do this I’m more convinced that they need to completely scrap the current hunter model and start over with the class. After playing a hunter for four years, this current incantation is barely remotely close to it’s humble beginnings.
I was BM and as such I read BRK all the time. Now I’m SV, not really liking the spec, but giving it a shot anyway. I’m trying to feel ya here, BRK, but I’m not feeling it yet. I feel like I’m CD obsessed, proc driven, and so totally helpless to help out our clothies because I now lack intimidation and don’t have scatter shot. I use the traps for procs. This is insane, so who’s really surviving here?
I’m lucky, my guild has been very patient and understanding. Why not, I’m the ONLY hunter main left there. Best of luck to the rest of you. And BRK, keep on keepin’ on.
I actually did cry…
I have too much emotion attached to BM
So so happy
–warning: wall o’ text–
I’m not defending Blizz here out of some strange fanboi urge, but I’ve done a fair amount of QC/testing work in the past and one thing needs to be remembered in all the “what purpose does the PTR serve?” angst
It is economically impossible for any company to have enough in house testers to provide the same level of data feedback that half a million active Hunters can.
Except at the very high-end raiding level, no 2 BM Hunters will run the same gear and pet configuration. Figure it takes 5 minutes to reset Talent/Pet/Gear/Buffs and 10 minutes to test that combo for DPS. And now think about how many basic types of raid boss there are and multiply. 50 QA guys can test maybe 20% of the “normal” bosses/fights per week.
5000 Hunters on the PTR can probably get that number up to 60%, and you have to allow for bias and parsing errors and PTR dataset errors and all sorts of things that Blizzard can control internally and can’t control externally…and maybe you begin to see why Blizzard “ignores” the community.
At least they can (and will) say “ooops, screwed that one up…we fix”
Fingers crossed that we all get to go back to BM soon, and drag our little Loques and Lizards along with us.
I went survival from BM after the patch, and I don’t know if I’ll want to go back even after BM is rebuffed. I like being able to blow people up with explosive shot, and I like being able to replace my crit gems with Agility or AP gems. The only down fall is getting used to having to actually shoot at someone in PVP, i used to be able to intimidate, run away, Bestial Wrath, and win. Now I actually have to shoot.
The single saddest thing about all this is the amount of arrogance on Bliz’z part … and I’m USUALLY a supporter. The player base, while mightily skewed by idiots I admit, should not be ignored. Every single well thought out prediction by the player base came true.
Are they going to reimburse me for having to break out the Mammoth Cutters for normal questing?
Count me amongst those who don’t want volley re-buffed. I agree with Shagrat: “When hunters can spam volley and top meters over the true AoE classes, that’s a problem. ” If I’m out soloing with my gorilla and get multiple mobs, sure, I volley ‘em down but I refuse to approach every single fight that way.
I want Volley rebuffed to the point where Rogues aren’t beating me on trash. Say 10/30% back.
I agree that the original Volley was too much, and I was expecting a 10 or 15% nerf. 30% puts us below even classes that are decidedly NOT “true” AoE classes, like Rogues and Shamans.
They should give us a special shot just like MM and SV ……that is all i want , and maybe give it special mechanics for when we go RED and beastly
From your Lord and Master Zalenna
Volley should’ve only been reduce 15% or so, not the massive nerf it has taken. Was grouped with a Druid last night, we were both AoEing down mobs and he was sitting on 6k DPS for his spells yet Volley for me was lucky to do 2k and these were on grey mobs mind you.
Volley in it’s current form is unviable with the 30% damage and 30% AP reduction, the pendulum has swung too far the other way now.