Alleviating Some Confusion
Beast Mastery hunter have a talent called Ferocious Inspiration that grants everybody in the raid a 3% bonus to all damage.
Retribution paladins have a talent called Sanctified Retribution that grants everybody in the raid who is affected by Retribution Aura a 3% bonus to all damage.
What are the limits of Ferocious Inspiration?
- The hunter’s pet has to be alive.
- The hunter’s pet has to make a critical strike. (Obviously the pet has to be alive to get a critical strike, but we think it emphases how important it is for the BM hunter to keep his pet alive.)
What are the limits of SR?
- The paladin must have Retribution Aura active.
- In order to receive the SR-buff, the raid-member must be within thirty yards of the paladin.
With the elimination of stacking similar buffs, only one of these two buffs is calculated when doing damage. One may see both buffs applied, but only the oldest buff is calculated.
For example, if a Ret Pally turns on Retribution Aura, he can still be affected by FI, he’ll see the FI icon on his buffs, but their benefits don’t stack; the paladin gets 3% bonus to damage, not 6%. If, for some reason, the paladin changed auras, he’d still get a 3% bonus to damage from the FI cooking on him.
Since our Ret Pally is probably going to leave Retribution Aura up for the entire fight, all raid members who are within thirty yards of the paladin are going to get a 3% bonus to their damage. These people will also get the Ferocious Inspiration buff, but the buffs won’t stack.
So why are we bringing a BM hunter? Because not all raid-members are within thirty yards of that Ret Pally. DPS-casters can easily be more than thirty yards away from the paladin. Many casters have a thirty-five yard range, and some classes have talents that extend that to forty-one yards. These people are not getting the Retribution Aura, and thus not getting the Sanctified Retribution 3% damage bonus.
But they are getting the Ferocious Inspiration bonus! All those casters who stay at max-range are getting our FI-buff. Aren’t we awesome!
Notice that one buff doesn’t not “push” another buff off the buff-list; that’s important to note.
Let’s say your ret pally takes a Hateful Strike on Patchwerk and is smashed through the floor. Everybody loses the Retribution Aura, yes? But because the Ferocious Inspiration buff was still there — just not being calculated — FI is immediately included in all calculations and the entire raid gets to keep the 3% bonus to damage.
Let’s say a boss fight starts and the Ret Pally forgets to turn on Ret Aura and a BM-hunter’s pet scores a critical strike. Well, everybody in the raid, including the Ret Pally, would get a 3% bonus to all damage from FI.
“ZOMGBBQSAUCE!” shrieks the Ret Pally, “I totally forgot Ret Aura!” and he cranks it on. Anybody currently affected by Ferocious Inspiration will not be affected by Sanctified Retribution, because they don’t stack!
But if the BM hunter’s pet doesn’t score another critical strike, FI will wear off and SR will take over. Then, when the BM hunter’s pet scores a critical strike and proc’s FI, FI will not affect anybody already within thirty yards of the Ret Pally.
- A person can be affected by both Ferocious Inspiration and Sanctified Retribution, but only the oldest buff is included in damage-calculations.
- If both buffs are up and one drops off, the other takes over immediately.
- Both FI and SR are raid-wide buffs.
- FI is not dependent upon proximity to the hunter or his pet, but can only proc if the pet has a critical strike.
- SR is not dependent upon anything other than proximity to the Ret Pally.
Got it? Good.
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Alas ret aura is also 3% haste, might want to mention that.
Both FI and Sanctified Retribution are fantastic buffs, but we’ve noticed that FI tends to be a bit of a problem in raids for an unexpected reason – it falls off and re-applies itself continuously, which spams people with combat text messages. In raids with more than one BM Hunter it was so bad that people actually had to turn off scrolling combat text or at least aura messages in order to be able to see 2 feet in front of their face.
Ive a question, does replenishment act like this?
I know there are two other classes(Ret palidans and shadowpreists) that bring it.
Does a hunter bring any advantage over how we bring it to the raid? Is theirs limited or do we have any real boon over theirs? Kinda curious since for the moment I’m sticking with survival until the patches stop swinging from left to right.
Oh hey we’re going to take away the need to buy ammo! Oops we arn’t yet sorry.
Oyi.
The good thing for me is my guild does not have a retadin raiding! We only have tankadins and healadins, so woohoo for BM hunters!
@nick S
I know for a fact that both MSBT and SCT can be customized to not display the application of certain buffs, Additionally, the size of said scrolling text can also be manipulated.
OT but had to say it. I am happy that BM is again viable. ran 7 heroics last night and was pleased with the results. Have Sapph and KT tonight in 10 man Naxx (wish us luck), and we will see how well my BM and my buddies MM go together (Trueshot Aura with Ferocious Inspiration anyone?).
@BRK
First time – Long Time. Really appreciate the tips, advice and humor. This is usually the first site I check in the morning at work. Great info too.
Thanks for the info. Guess I’ll have to go BM soon. Tho MM as mentioned is qutite viable aswell.
Replenishment, armor-reduction, and just about anything else that functions as a “similar-class” spell.
is it just me or does blizz not like hunters to buff other players in raids i mean we do have FI but the ret pally thing and we had expose weakness but they took that away all we have left that is unique is trueshot aura /cry
well at least thats still better then Rouges ^^
@ineedakite
TSA hasn’t been “unique” since 3.0
Unleashed Rage Rank 5 (shaman)
Causes your critical hits with melee attacks to increase all party and raid members’ attack power by 10% if within 45 yards of the Shaman. Lasts 10 sec.
Abomination’s Might Rank 2 (death kniggits)
Your Blood Strikes and Heart Strikes have a 50% chance and your Obliterates have a 100% chance to increase the attack power by 10% of raid members within 45 yards for 10 sec. Also increases your total Strength by 2%.
I still do not understand why expose weakness was made a self buff rather than a raid buff. Would make it even better now that I am SV to not only provide replenishment to a raid but also an AP buff.
ooooo BRk the SV hunter in my guild is NOT happy,I beat him repeatedly on the dps charts,but guess what, I’M JUST HAPPY BM IS BACK
The thing everyone tends to loose is, in a 25-man, you are likely to be able to have more than one of the same buff around. So..
Ret pally dies? no problem. BM has it covered. BM pet dies? no problem, Ret pally has it covered. Raid needs another aura up for fire resist or something else? no problem, BM has it covered.
Blizz has designed the new raid buffs with enough overlaps to choke a horse.
As a paladin, protection, I have to say I think you are really reaching here BRK. Is a Retribution Paladin REALY going to forget to put up improved Ret Aura? Not if he knows his class.
The range of the buff, while valid, is going to be situational. FI procs and everyone gets it regardless of distance. SR is on all the time for those within range. Yes some classes have the ability to be farther away than the SR range but how often will that happen? My experience is not to often.
Does a BM hunter have a place in a raid? Of course. MQoSRDPS is always win. Do you really think you need to justify your place in your guild raid? You shouldn’t have to if your guild isn’t elitist jerks and I hope it isn’t.
If you hold up your end of the DPS piechart then your golden. A hunters job is to show up, bring the rain, bring the teeth, loot and repeat…. and not to steal my agro.
Yay!! I raided for the first time tonight, since last spring I think. 10 mans with my guild, and it went well. I can handle the shorter stuff, my disabilities make it hard to do a 5 hour raid. Anyway, I went to Obsidian Sanctum and Vault. I am happy.
I guess the same argument could be made for keeping a SV Hunter in the raid for his/her Replenishment buff. Remember? That’s the buff you said was useless because it does not stack with similar buffs. So, which way do you want it?
Tried to post something, but the spam filter deleted it. Celebrating single awareness day as I am, I do not feel that I would be able to re-type the entire thing. The point was, blood-specced dk’s Abomination’s might overwrites a hunter’s TSA, even if it is up first.
Please BRK, do usernames and passwords for comments. Please? Please?
I’m tired of having Ph.D. worthy posts eaten by the internet
. (Complete joke, btw).
Anyway, one more try.
Ultimately, Blizz is moving forward with it’s “bring the player, not the class” philosophy. For better or worse.
Personally, I think it’s going to be worse. Much worse.
Before, a hunter did MQoSRDPS. We had relatively few raid buffs, and relatively low utility. We were on top of DPS charts because of that. Paladins had every utility known to WoW, did crap DPS but could never be killed (cockroaches, with much love!).
Now, Blizz’s dream, is that every class will have redundant utility. Every class will do similar DPS. The only difference between Mage, Warlock, Hunter, Rogue will be where you stand and what kind of pretty colors show on the screen.
How boring is that? (Rhetorical question).
As it is, I’ve been playing my shammy healer more and more as time goes on.
Bringing a BM hunter with FI to a riad because what IF the ret pally dies leads to bringing 2 tanks to a tank&spank fight because what IF the tanks die. (And bring 1 more healer beacause IF a healer dies, etc….)
If ret pally forget his aura, that was his first mistake. Two like this in a night, and he could be go on the LFG channel. Do you forget Hunter’s Mark? Do a tank forget Sunder Armor? If he does he can’t play with his class.
Stay out of the range of the aura mean you are probably out of the range of the totems, Unleashed rage, Abomation’s might, warrior-shouts, etc. If you do this, you can’t play with your class.
(Yeah, with sniper training this is hard, but you can’t let them fall off you.)
As someone else mentioned, a ret pally’s aura also provides 3% haste, so anyone standing outside of it is missing a buff regardless of whether FI is up or not. That is unless of course you have redundancy on the haste buff as well.
Sorry, BRK, but this blog entry just smells of “Oops, forgot someone else can bring it too.”
For those, like us, who didn’t know, this is from Swift Retribution. Of course, an aura only reaches thirty yards, and an SV hunter is trying to stay at thirty yards or greater, so this would seem to make the SV-positioning even more precise.
Unless you’re in the back with a Boomkin getting Improved Boomkin Form…
It’s important for the pet not to die with FI. In some fights, this is incredibly difficult.
That s when the pally can take over. And on fights where he dies….
FI takes it back.
Needless to say, having both in a raid almost guarantees +3% to damage. That’s why I’d want both: I hate the RNG, and I like a sure thing.
if a pally wanted to drop 11 points in holy and get aura mastery it would put it to 40 yards..
is there anything a wolfs buff wont stack with that would be a nice buff to have with any spec…
there is one more reason a ret pally might not have ret aura up is you have a pally tank that thinks he knows it all and just has to have his ret aura up and tells you to put up another aura and i find it quicker to just let them have there way it does no good to try and tell them anything i have tried….
I can think of a few fights where you are easily out of range of 1/2 the raid, even if you aren’t a SV, and as Klinderas said, the redundancy is nice.. you don’t have to bring 2 ret pallys to a 25-man
@Allarr
As far as I can tell, my posts get eaten when someone else is posting at the same time. Has nothing to do with content or quality.
Always, always copy what you write, then you can just paste it in if it gets eaten.
@Uthell
Assuming your ret and prot pallys aren’t fail; the prot pally should have points in improved devotion aura, and always have it up, and ret pally scan’t put 11 in the holy tree without losing VERY important talents to get there. PVE ret build is 0/10/61, any points in holy would give up something else more important.
If the boss is faced away from the raid the ret pallies will be a fair bit closer than the boss is. The point of the post seems to be how important FI is but Blizzard’s point is definately make enough overlaps in buffs to avoid making any specific class necessary. In wrath bloodlust is good but the fights are all short so it makes more of a difference. Clearly an aura provided by a plate wearer that gives haste as well is better than a crit dependent attack provided by a pet. Maybe if we call it a happy backup buff?
As kind of a side note to the discussion, you generally lose more with sniper training than you gain with a very few fights that are exceptions.
Kinda weak excuse to being a Bm hunter, what if the ret pally dies, what if im more than 30yards away.
Yeah but, since BM is competitive once more having the backup is basically just a pleasant bonus, since you won’t be losing anything. Anyway the way raiding works is that bosses aren’t like trash, there’s movement and unexpected circumstances to consider, not to mention that some bosses by their very nature prevent you from being positioned ideally.
If you’re within 30 yards of the heigan in phase one you’re gonna get a pretty cast time debuff that you could do without. If I were a caster I’d rather not stand closer and hope the ret pally dps’s him from the near side at all times when i could stay definitely safe and still get my 3% from FI. What if my ret pally is on the dead side of Gothik and i’m on the living? What if Grobbulus decides to chain inject my ret pally and he spends most of his time /cowering somewhere waiting to explode? Pets can’t get injected. These are just a couple of examples but they kinda illustrate how often boss encounters make 30 yards a long way, and this is excluding bad/dead ret pallys. Overall FI is a great addition to an already competitive dps spec even if there is a ret pally in the raid.
I think I over-wrote that but apparently I was in rant mode.
Ret Pally turns on Retribution Aura, he can still be affected by FI, he’ll see the FI icon on his buffs, but their benefits don’t stack; the paladin gets 3% bonus to damage, not 6%. If, for some reason, the paladin changed auras, he’d still get a 3% bonus to damage from the FI cooking on him.