Fourth May Not Be Last, But It’s Not First
One more week, BM vs SV in 25-man Naxx. Here we are against Patchwerk. We look good!
And here’s our pet, almost breaking 2000DPS!
And here we are in the raid, 4th. /blech
There’s just no getting around the fact that SV > BM in most fights, and especially those where movement isn’t key.
/frump
In other cool Patchwerk-news, check out our feral druid tank doing her thing:
There was one more “Dodged” in that streak, for a total of seven. We just didn’t time the screenshot perfectly.
She may be a lesser-class, but that’s just cool.
The Power Aura “dots”? The Green one tells us that we’re getting the feral druid’s Leader of the Pack. The Red one tells us that we’re getting the ret pally’s Retribution Aura, and thus we get the benefit of his Sanctified Retribution. The purple dot on the left tells us we’re getting the draenai’s Heroic Presence. The purple dot on the right means our pet is getting Heroic Presence, too.
The green crossed arrows? Serpent Sting has fallen off. We fired it after taking the screenshot. We did! We promise!
(Note: Killing Patchwerk in exactly three minutes does not give you the achievement. It’s a big fat lie.)
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66 Responses to “Fourth May Not Be Last, But It’s Not First”
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Sorry that you’re in 4th, but hopefully that will improve with de-nerfing.
I call shenanigans! 3min Patch kill should count!
Couldn’t help but notice your pets focus is at 100% in that screen shot…. does that mean you are not using it as effectively as you could be?
Perhaps reallocate a point from go for the throat or bestial discipline?
Or was this just a coincidence?
That 3min mark for the Patchwerked achievement is bull! We happened to also get 3min exactly on our 10man tonight, sigh.
SV is also > BM in most movement fights…there’s no getting around it…BM < SV.
OH, and you may want to move your power-aura icons that are on your character down a little bit…It’ll help with seeing Void Zones when (if) you start doing Sarth 3D…and beyond.
yeah the ach dont work if its exactly three mins
small plug for gf’s blog
http://thehunterssanctuary.blogspot.com/
as it was missed on links post
Dear Mr. Kitty,
I have a question re: your AddOns, and it goes as thus;
Which AddOn are you using that gives you a numerical read-out of all of the Debuffs and DoTs active on your target? For instance, I can see that Hunter’s Mark has 49 seconds left on it.
I have been after something like this for a while now, and have had to resort to using Power Auras for certain things, thus doubling up on information that isn’t wanted/needed, and whatever it is that you’re using, seems to fit the bill perfectly.
Thanks in advance, good sir!
Bonus question: do you also use an AddOn to organise your raid group like that automatically? Or do you do so manually whenever you start up a raid?
Adding to sesos’s question
I see you have your buffs to the top right hand side of the screen near the map. How do you do that?
Eldorn.
can you please show us how to configure powerauras to show when our pets health is below 50% please. I have tryed to do this many times but it will not work for me.
@ sesos and eldorn:
Chance are BRK may use different add-ons but the same effect can be achieved using X-Perl for the target debuffs and raid windows while I like Satrina Buff Frames for the personal buffs. It is endlessly configurable.
As for the DPS meters and the topping thereof, I can’t help thinking that one of the reasons for my renewed love of raiding is not having the stress of absolutely having to be at the top of the meters. Sometimes I’m quite far down but I’m using my traps and Misdirection to keep aggro off healers and lots of other small, easy-to-miss-but-terribly-helpful tasks. We had our BM limelight in Burning Crusade, I’m happy to let Survival have it now.
Anyone happen to know what the “15-20″ is at the top middle of the screen shot ?
We watch our Focus pretty religiously, and we’re quite convinced that we need all the regeneration we can get. If it’s at 100% at any time, it’s because of multiple hunter-crits that cause GftT to do its job.
Range Display
OmniCC
That, most likely, is the addon called “Range Display”.
@sesos:
> Bonus question: do you also use an AddOn to organise your raid group
> like that automatically? Or do you do so manually whenever you start
> up a raid?
That’s just the default RaidUI. Simply open your Raid-Window (”O” for Social, last tab) and pull out the groups to whereever you want them on your screen. They’ll stay there for every raid until removed.
As for the buff timers, use the OmniCC addon.
if my pet had gotten refreshers of might and kings like i asked before pull…
You kinda seem like a jerk Shootr
I love it when screens of your UI are posted, it gives me good ideas etc.
Looks like you are really happy with Loque’s performance! …sigh I saw a hunter with greens have it. lol
Abbrasion,
He is hardly a jerk, he did ask the pallys to refresh the pally buffs on his pet before the pull. Asking for your pet to be rebuffed is no different than any other member of the raid asking the same. In fact, HAD his pet gotten the buffs, we likely could have gotten Patchwerk down in 2 min 59 sec and gotten the achievement. Seriously, if you don’t have something constructive to say….
i can be, but not really. im more of a goof than a jerk. i said what i said in jest.
now, if i could only find a way to inject sarcastic inflection into my typing…
Indeed, Shootr; I have long been an advocate of the addition of the Sarcasm Point to the English language, but no one seems to take me seriously.
Anyway, I just wanted to say that I would gladly accept being 4th in DPS if it meant cranking out over 4k. I think I have come close to that on one EASY boss…ONCE.
I find it sad when I see such WWS parse… Look at the top 5 dps, 3 hunters and 2 hybrid classes. It’s like a million mages, rogues and warlocks cried out at once and then were silent…
Kinda ironic that someone named Abbrasion is calling out someone for one small comment and calling them a jerk.. lol, pot calling kettle?…
Funny enough poildbrun, the mages rule the dps charts of my guild. Rets are top five too, but this could be because they’ve been haveing all the luck with drops. I can’t wait till I get my Envoy of Mortality off of KT. With my luck the Betrayer axe will drop for the 4th time = /. Even with the gun and SV speced I’m not sure that I will beat any of these mages out. They have been doing over 6k on 25 man patch.
Mages are top on most high end raiding wws parses. Nah I like shooter, but he’s right, sarcasm + text = assclown…er… makes them look that way rather. Do you utilize Sinper Training Shootr? I find myself losing melee buffs whenever I try it on Patchwerk. It’s to the point where it’s only worth it for the Kill Shot buff.
absolutely. im hit capped through itemization, so i dont care much about heroic presence anymore. ret pally aura is nice…but we have a mut rogue specced for 3% crit, balance druid with imp moonkin form (haste), and brk’s FI. the only one i try hard to position for is leader of the pack, for the 5% crit…which is easy enough to maintain while also being at 31+ yards. that will all be moot come 3.1 anyway.
dont forget that ret dps is misleading; they have to cut themselves often in order to maintain their holy damage buff…that is often factored into wws as damaged dealt.
…wtb working edit button…
What about the 10% AP DK buff? Since you don’t run with a MM hunter.
WTB link to the WWS parse
both unleashed rage and aboms might are 45 yard buffs, and offer the 10% ap buff (naturally they dont stack).
You roll with an Enhance Shaman? Nice /jealous still though, wtb wws parse plx
Oh, it’s in the heading of his post, lol, I fail, nvm.
Or it’s not, lol, wtf
two, usually
As an aside, what’s also cool in the linked picture is the flying arrow. Right above the Boomkin’s head is an incoming arrow that you can actually see the features of, rather than just some streaking ball of light.
Largely insignificant to the damage at hand, but seeing that level of detail always revives a moment of thankfulness that I have for Blizzard’s creation.
Of course, more commonly my moment of glee is followed by a lag spike that DC’s me.
Lesser class? LESSER CLASS!??!
Why I never! How rude.
@ Druids!
I’ve gotten used to his belittling, I choose to ignore it, it saves my sanity.
Besides, it’s fun making his jaw drop when I pull 51k hp in raids and dodge/miss 9 times in a row LOL. I wanna see HIM pull that off.
Im not sure where you are at with gearing people up and your raid progress of late BRK as you haven’t really mentioned it but i can say on patch if all other classes are equally geared to the hunters then they are slacking, DKs should rule the roost on these fights due to being very overpowered and rogues seems to pretty well in my opinion.
Personally i dont think as a serious raider i could spec BM, not because it the slight drop in DPS but mainly as in the harder fights in Wrath atm where you need to make your DPS count such as 3D your pet die to easily and if it doesn’t you will have a huge amount of down time keeping it alive. Similar i find it difficuly keeping a pet alive as Surv in the KT fight due to random spawning void zones wiping it when i cant see them from range.
I use to love BM however the comlexity of surv spec and ability to really maximise your DPS by performance has grown on me and i find it pretty enjoyable to play. GIEF ULDUAR AND A CHALLENGE IN RAIDING CONTENT!
WTB link or SS of total raid DPS. Patchwerk is a benchmark fight. . . but it’s only one fight. What about fights where you can’t be at max range? What about fights where you have to move? What about fights where pets are likely to die? What about TRASH? After all trash most likely makes up the biggest chunk of time spent in a zone.
not bad dps…. I’m about the same on my lock… grats on Champion of the Frozen Wastes btw =)
WWS link or no point in posting screen shots of it.
Shootr seems like a cool, regular dude. Please be nice..
Hiya BRK
Love the post as usual. I’m a bit of a nerd theorycrafter however don’t have access to any other sites from work.
Something that jumped out at me was you shot rotations. You were in combat for just over 170sec. You had 14 arcance shots (instants) and 10 multi-shots (0.5sec casttime). From memory cooldown is respectively 6sec and 10sec. Given how meh steady is hitting these days are you gimping your dps by not prioritising the other shots?
By my (very poor) math you could have squeezed in approx 28 arcane shots, or roughly double what you did. Given the ignore armour of this shot thats a potentially big jump. Multi-shot you maybe could have squeezed out another 6 probably.
Love your posts, find them very informative, we’re about on par as far as gear on progression goes. This isn’t meant as a critque (well maybe it is?) but maybe something you can take advantage of to scare those SV hunters a little more, but don’t think you’ll be making up the 10% difference!
I’m agreeing with Scrub…by my math, you’re wasting a lot of GCDs somewhere…and by “a lot” I mean close to half of them…your Serpent Sting only has an 80% uptime…which means you probably only used Serpent Sting 8 times in the fight, tops (Glyphed, 12 unglyphed)…so that’s 8 GCDs, plus the 36 Steadies, 14 Arcane’s and 10 Multi’s…totaling 68 GCDs out of a total of 120 for the fight. The only other hunter abilities I see a BM using during that fight that trigger a GCD is: Misdirect and Hunter’s Mark….you had a total opportunity for 6 MDs, and 2 Hunter’s Marks…so I’m curious where all those other GCDs are going. Unless I’m missing something…you have some rotation tweaking to do.
Hey Shooter,
What shot rotation do you use?
From memory Shooter doesn’t roll with aimed shot so he’d be ES and steadies, with Sting on cooldown. Not sure whether he saves multi for LnL or weaves into normal rotation.
I’ve stuck with 2/18/51 and weave in aimed. Can appreciate the 6/14/51 build from min maxing but like my little bit of (world) pvp utility with current build, though I’m a raider thru and thru.
Sorry for being off topic but BRK you’re such a wonderful person. You make me happy to be human knowing there’s people such as you in the world.
BRK do you add an effect to your voice in your podcasts for comedic purposes? Because it makes it hard to listen to after a few minutes. I appreciate your information and love for the hunter class, but slow down, and lose the comedic tones, and your podcast will be a little better. Also, tell some stories, of when you raid, or some things that you’ve notice with the mechanics while you raid, instead of just spouting news and reading off theory crafting notes. Possibly the co-host you are trying to hire will allow you to loosen your belt a little and be easier to listen to over a few minutes. But the voice thing has to go. Talk to us like we’re people, not infants.
So why does our beloved BRK hate Marksman so much?
I’m assuming its just me, but with the testing ive done I actually get better results with MM than Surv.
Are the people that are good at Survival (eg not me) really getting that much more dps from Surv than MM?
What are we talking here, 100 more dps? 200? 500?
Hey Shooter -
Why don’t I just go eat some hay, make things out of clay, lay by the bay? I just may! What’d ya say?
i use more of a shot priority than a shot rotation. something like kill shot > srs > es > multi > ss. an sv hunter trying to adhere to a specific rotation is going to exasperate himself. its more important to be aware of your shot priority and have the presence of mind to make instant decisions based on the duration, cooldown, and global cooldown availabilities. trying to squeeze in an extra steady shot when your multi/aimed or es is <1.4 seconds from being available is risky, and sometimes cost your precious miliseconds.
im specced 6/14/51, and you can look me up on the armory for itemization choices. ive macro’d kill shot to my other shots, since it is off the gcd (this is kind of bad, but it helps me because im still pretty bad when it comes to pushing too many buttons). ive also macro’d kill command and savage rend for my raptor.
equally geared and equally skilled are two different things. in order for capable classes to break 6k dps (hunters, mages, locks, dks, rogues), the entire raid needs to have a very high dps. the longer a fight goes, the more the rng can work against you, and your damage per second will suffer. i tend to value total damage done a bit more than damage per second. they typically go hand in hand, but sometimes total damage done tells a better story.
also, dks should only rule the roost if they are dw unholy hybrid. our dk prefers full unholy, and he does damn well with it. the only way rogues are going to seriously compete for top dps is to spec HAT, and ours prefer mutilate.
…i eat pieces of sh*t like you for breakfast…
You eat sh*t for breakfast????!
Bravo sir, you’ve brightened up my work day.
…uh..nuh..NOO!
One part of the post has me hoping for some elaboration from BRK or the commenters, namely the mention that SV > BM “especially those [fights] where movement isn’t key.”
I’ve found that SV performs even better in mobile fights, due to the (A) greater range from hawkeye and (B) high power instant Explosive Shot, and (C) more powerful serpent sting. Heigan, Malygos Phase 2, Sartharion+3, all very highly mobile fights where I find a SV build even more advantageous than a BM build.
I am a proponent of “do what’s fun as long as its competitive”, but I’d like to hear what makes the sun shine on BM in mobile fights. The only thing I can think of is a fight where Hunter mobility is important, but the pet can just stay chewing on the boss. Thaddius (but pet doesnt get the buff)? Grobbulus, if your tank keeps your pet out of the bad stuff while you run across the room to put the gas cloud in a convenient spot? Sapphiron, maybe, since pets can keep attacking while hunters hide behind ice during that big bomb?
SV > BM on Thaddius because of the debuff…ALWAYS. Grobbulus will be very RNG(disease) dependent…if both hunters have a bad roll on the diseases, BM should be > SV, but I’ve gone through that fight more then once with a single disease…which places SV on about equal footing, if not slightly ahead. Sapphiron the hunter can continue to DPS as well as the pet into the air phase, only ducking behind the iceblock in time to live…I’ve done it several times coming out FAR ahead of every other player/class (including other SV hunters that are neck and neck for every other fight)…so I still would put SV > BM on that fight.
The problem is that, in the current content, there is very little that gives the BM hunter an advantage over the SV hunter…maybe Uldar’s encounters will change things, but I still think BM still needs a buff of some sort to be put on par with SV/MM.
“If you’re not first, you’re last.” – Ricky Bobby
looks like they buffed SV even more so i cant wait to see more testing by BRK. thanks, BRK!
Just thought you might want to edit that picture to remove the part of your zip code visable.
Marksmanship – O’my…. MM’s huge buffs.
Piercing Shots re-designed: Your critical Aimed, Steady and Chimera Shots cause the target to bleed for 10/20/30% of the damage dealt over 8 sec.
Ranged Weapon Specialization: Points reduced from 5 to 3, 1/3/5%.
Wild Quiver: Chance increased to 4/8/12%, up from 4/7/10%. Damage increased from 50% of an auto shot, to 80%.
SV got the biggest buffs imo
yay for more buttons to push…
Just Black Arrow. Supposedly it shares a CD with traps so you won’t be able to use it until after your first trap comes off CD. Which is fine with the whole Explosive Shot refreshing your trap dot, but still, won’t be using Black Arrow until 30 sec in the fight. Hopefully this changes. But probably won’t.
but generally speaking on most bosses… Is SV>BM w/o trap dancing? Is SV>MM w/o trap dancing? I know these are vague questions. thanks for the input
Generally yes. If BM beat SV on most fights then the min/maxers would be BM. But they aren’t, they’re overwhelmingly SV.
What is the name of the WebGUI you are using to do your stats tracking?
Hey BRK!! Just wondering what add on that you are using on the bottom of your screenshot there.
My guild was in 25naxx and one of our dps that had been pulling 4.3k dps had gone afk right before patchwork and we said screw it and we pulled. We ended up downing him at 2 min 59 seconds getting the achievment with only 24 people. After a minute of excitment and yells of congrats the afk mage finally came back and noticed he didn’t get the acievment which lead to us all laughing in vent telling him not to go afk for a boss. He did end up getting the gear he had wanted so he was cool waiting another week to get the achievment