Hold Your Breath, Folks
“Dear BRK … I was trying out BM on the PTR last night and BM is definitely back in the game. Probably a little over-powered too, I must add. Here’s a SS I took of my DPS and my T-rex’s DPS. Desmond.”
No kiddin’.
But again, remember that the PTR is where balancing and talent-testing is done. It may be that BM on the PTR is overpowered and will be nerfed back.
But still, that’s a nice number, isn’t it?
Our own foray into the PTR should be soon. Our character-copy is still in-work, but tonight or tomorrow, we’ll have a movie being recorded.
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Mmmm…… yummy…
That’s really good news.
BM got out of the gutter with the last patch, looks like now we’ll be on our feet again.
This is very heartening news
I was in Naxx last night, purposefully gimped (or so I thought) as a BM. As much as it irked me to know that I wasn’t doing as much as I could, I had a blast and felt much more zen-like as BM. I don’t know if it was a greater synergy at work, or if SV is just too stressful (Range? AH! Lock ‘n Load? AH!!! mash mash mash…). Anyway, my fingers fell back into their old patterns of attack and petattack and it felt good.
Vulp,
ps. and I beat the better geared SV hunter on a couple fights too. (rapid fire, bestial wrath, call of the wild, kill command, oh the power…)
oh well. Used to be a big BM advocate, but after playing survival BM is just dull by comparison. I would hope that the the extra pet talents would improve this but they just seem like direct buffs with no extra complication. Whereas survival is starting to look clunky in the next patch.
But if BM ends up being best for dps that is what I will be for my guilds raids
Damn, the pet did about 24% more dps than the player…
Blizzard should change their “bring the player, not the class” into “bring the pet, not the player!”. The pet is only 100 DPS below the 12th player in the raid (a dk, who might thus also have a pet who added to his damage…).
Fingers and Toes are crossed.
hey where can i get that “summary report”? Is that part of recount I am missing?
And what of the boss fights where the pet is taken out? Nah, as a long time BM hunter now converted to Surv, the pet just does to much damage compared to its master, take the pet out of the equation and wave bb to your dps.
watcha talking about willis? as a bm your pet does a lot of damage. just like you cant say to a pally oh you cant use your bubble in a duel. think before you speak. BRK Rocks!
damn, i never like to see a pet have more dps than the hunter (due to bm getting absolutely killed on pet unfriendly fights) … but damn
while i might not raid as bm hunter anymore (or for that matter, i dont even play my hunter that much at all), i know alot of my friends will be ecstatic to raid as bm again and not be killing their dps.
hopefully they make it so bm still does nicely (aka, top pet friendly fights, not too far behind on pet unfriendly) but the pet only does around 30-40% of their damage.
I see they finally added a way of getting saved to a raid ID instead of just zoning in and seeing an empty instance thanks to a fail raid leader.
It’ll be nice if BM can stay that way when 3.1 goes live. There is no reason one spec of a pure DPS class should be head and shoulders above the other two. I’m waiting for my PTR patch to finish downloading so I can try out the MM changes and see how it fares up. (Although I hear Piercing Shots is being retarded and not working properly)
Btw, with dual-specs, will people be using a spec for pet-friendly fights and a different one for pet-unfriendly ones?
This is the direct result of the pet talent Wild Hunt that hugely buffs you pets stam and AP scaling( believe the math I read is its adding a straight 40% up to 62.8% scaling with those hunter stats, I’d be highly surprised if they didn’t change the talent.
Ok, when a pet does more DPS than it’s Hunter, be prepared to get smacked with the Nerf Bat pretty hard. If you honestly think Blizz is going to let that fly, you’re crazy.
I’m hopeful they won’ t change the AP buff our pets receive from Wild Hunt. It really is the best way to buff up the 51 point BM talent point. As we all know, maintaining the type of dps we see in the screenshot of the Patchwork fight with regard to pet un-friendly boss fights can be difficult. Depending on the type of fight, your pet may die a few times or you may have to keep bringing him in and out of the boss fight to keep him from getting killed. Regardless, BM Hunters, heavily dependent upon their pets dps, will not be tops in every single fight. Maybe that will be the reason Blizzard decides not to nerf the current ptr version of Wild Hunt….at the end of a full clear with several bosses with different types of fights….it all evens out.
As a side note, not being in the PTR myself, I am hopeful that a BM Hunter will test out the dps pet numbers while gemmed and glyphed for AP. Looks like the guy in the screenshot might have been specced survival and just switched over for Patchwork or something.
I sure hope they NERF that DK….
And listen folks. DONT say OP. Maybe that hunter is uber geared. Maybe everything in that fight wast perfect for him or her. We have no idea to any of the underlying items,
Did anyone look up and compare both hunters in that party?
What about that DK, that is right behind the hunter?
All compliments to that hunter for a great shot.. but lets see the “OVERALL” raid data. What was the DPS in the no so friendly pet fights?
I hate doing less damage than my pet. I can handle my pet doing 40-50% of my damage on live, but 50-60% is too much. I wish they’d buff the BM hunter, not the BM pet.
@ Truewanderer
Hunter vs Wild is a tier 5 SV talent, not available to a typical deep BM build, and Thrill of the Hunt is a tier 7 SV mana cost reducer, so i’m not sure what you are talkin about there.
Regardless, I smell something fishy.
1. A pet doing more damage than the hunter, AND doing 3k by itself?!
2. I can’t find any hunters on either NA or EU Armories with the name “Insipidity”.
3. The screenshot looks very grainy and has obviously been altered to some extent.
4. Buggy PTR test results mean little anyways.
I for one, will not be holding my breath.
What if everyones DPS is as wonderfully buffed? I seem to remember GC saying something about some decent buffs coming down the chute.
I wouldn’t hold my breath. The pet doing more DPS than the master = incoming nerf for sure.
@Feuerhund
The PTR often flags characters for rename even when it’s not necessary. “Insipidity” may well not exist on the live realms.
This is all part of a bug. There’s some improper scaling going on from the BM ferocity pet talents “Shark Attack” and “Wild Hunt” going on, and it seems pets are getting 60% of the BM’s AP instead of 20%.
Of course this was the case on Wed. night when I last tested the PTR. If this bug hasn’t been fixed yet, this may be the case as to why there’s such high numbers.
Please
All hunters on PTR never use any abilities. Only use auto shot! try see if we can trick blizzard into not nerfing…
DPS will come and go, the real exciting part of this screenshot is the raid lockout warning. It’s obviously still rough if he’s seeing it after downing a boss, but it’s good to know the functionality exists. It’s been almost a month since either of my characters got saved to an empty Vault of Archavon, that trend can’t continue much longer.
Six thousand? We could almost buy our own ship for that!
I mean, uh…
Yeah, two players reaching for 6k dps is pretty ridiculous IMO. Either I’m underestimating how good T8/T8.5 gear is (it’s possible that they’re in full T8.5…) and the rest of the raid is in T7.5, or something’s seriously wrong…
…Then again, we all knew death knights were OP.
Indeed, I’m with the entire “hey cool now we get a raid ID warning” crowd. That’s huge. No more VOA lockouts.
It does NOT look like a bug. Wild Hunt says it increases contribution of AP from Hunter to Pet by 40% of Hunter’s AP (after 2 points. Not 20% like Rikaku noted).
My pet normaly has 1500 or so AP. My hunter as BM has 3900. 40% of 3900 is 1560, which gives the Pet a total of 3060 AP. Yes, it seems astounding as it is. It doesn’t seem overly OP, but I bet it will be tweaked a little.
On a Heroic Training Dummy, I did 2600 dps average only self buffed with Hawk. 6 mins or so, several mana bars and viper switches. Note, this is with a Cat, not a Spirit Beast or Devilsaur, etc.
As MM with the new Piercing Shots and Wild Quiver, I’d start out at 2800 dps, but after having to go into the first Viper, I’d even out at 2100-2200 dps.
[...] (link to blue post here ’cause it’s funny), dual-talent specs, and so forth, but today BRK posted a picture that piqued my interest, and not because of the numbers in the center of the screen, but rather the [...]
I’ve never seen that many people that high on dps meters. Maybe I don’t do enough 25 naxx, or maybe pugs are lower end, but all those 4k folks are way above average, so 6k doesn’t seem to far fetched. I was doing 2nd dps as BM on live with an SV doing top, and in most 25s I’m always top 10 with only T7.5 gloves and heroic gear…
Do you honestly think this iteration of Wild Hunt makes live in its current state?
Eric:
Is it 40% now? I couldn’t stay on the PTR too long (part of that whole Nvidia card crashing error still going on). The last time I was on the PTR was just before the new build, and in that one the max rank of Wild Hunt was 20%. If it is indeed 40% now, I would expect that to be nerfed. This high dps just seems to be too much.
I wouldn’t get too excited. VERY early in 3.1.
As for it not being OK for the pet to out DPS the hunter in a beast centric spec … why not? For my part I’m very tired of the homogenization of all specs. I don’t see a need for each spec to be balanced for each fight. Let Spec A shine in fight X and Spec B shine in fight Y, or another class all together. Spread the epeening fodder around. Dual spec will make the point even more moot as we WILL be able to switch between fights.
Yup. And I think I understand where the bug could be.
I think the talent is supposed to increase the amount of contributions you normally give your pet by 40%. Let’s say your pet normall gets 22% of your AP. Maybe this talent is supposed to increase just that 22% by 40%, totaling 30.8% (22*1.4) of your AP?
Instead it looks like 66% now, which is over double your pet’s AP.
“Probably a little over-powered too,”
Please pardon a moment of QQ……but…..
I’m all for free speech, but GEESH am I weary of BM hunters opining about “overpowered”…even on a test realm.
Blizzard has more than demonstrated their willingness to nerf beastmastery. They really don’t need any more nudges in that general direction by any beastmaster hunter cheering section that considers itself a supreme authority about what is overpowered in this game and what is not.
Yesterday I was riding along, in a warsong gulch daily, trying to intercept our flag and I was intercepted and killed by a couple allies in ohhh about 1.2 seconds…..ya know the very first phrase outta my mouth were ” Gee I hope they don’t make us beastmasters overpowered”.
Well, whatever spec ends up being best in DPS, I’ll take that as my primary, and have the second best one as a secondary situational spec if I need it. I like the way they’re thinking regarding BM for sure, but they’ve stated that they want BM to have a slightly lower maximum output than SV.
It’s not.
Agreed.
These numbers look completely reasonable assuming he’s in maxed-out gear. The new pet talents are a RIDICULOUS boost for BM Hunter DPS. I can do 5.5k specced Surv in less-than-perfect gear on live, why wouldn’t 6k be possible with the insane new pet talents?
PTRs attract the go-getters. Log on in Dalaran and look at how many Twilight Vanquisher, Undying, and Magic Seeker titles are running around. Yesterday on the PvP PTR there was a circle of 7 or 8 Plagued Proto-Drakes at Krasus’ Landing. That’s just the kind of person who tends to be on the PTR.
Them are some mighty fine looking numbers. Glad to know they’re attempting to balance them out again.
I still contend that a BM hunter NEEDS to do more DPS on a fight like PW. If we can’t top the meters in pet friendly fights, then we’ll look like junk overall.
They nerfed us when they made our pets this important for LK.
The reason the pet is doing more dmg than the hunter is because they nerfed steady shot. Auto shot makes up the largest portion of my DPS most of the time…and thats just sad. It would be like a rogue getting most of his damage from auto-attack.
They’ve backed themselves into a corner when they made the pets important.
I understand the whole-concept of the pet doing a lot of damage in a “Beast” master spec. The only problem I see with how it is right now is that in a basic 25 man naxx pug, you can afk and let the pet ps patchwerk and probably still come in on top 5 dps. That’s the only problem I can see with it.
An excellent MM or SV player will not be very far ahead of a terrible BM player since the pet is doing that much damage.
Please excuse my stupidity, but from all the patch notes I have seen, they hardly even touched anything to do with beast mastery right?? I mean why would the nubers be so different if in the patch notes there are nearly zero changes to BM?
Vedorian:
Because those two new top tier pet talents (namely, ferocity talents) that are aimed at the 51-point talent hunters only are adding a ton of pet dps, or so it seems.
@Vedorian:
Because the changes that are buffing BM so significantly have yet to actually make it into the patch notes. Mania has a nice round-up of all the pet changes:
http://www.maniasarcania.com/2009/02/26/ptr-31-early-round-up/#more-2497
[...] Gorillas just got awesome for arena. Depending upon what they do with BM before the next patch (based on this post things are looking up), I may unleash Uhk’loc upon casters in the arena. With 5/5 Serpent’s Swiftness, 2/2 Cobra Strikes [...]
To address several things- Firstly, I am talking about Wild Hunter the one of the new pet talents that gives for each rank a straight 20% extra scaling(aka 22.8% to 42.8% for just one point.), best case scenario I see them making it 10% per point worst case scenario I see them going with 20/40% of 22.8% which while a significant increase, pales in comparison. If you haven’t been on the ptr or at least read up on all the hunter changes I’d appreciate not being unfairly called out.
Second, while it is indeed a slim possibility that the hunter in question is the most talented and geared individual in his raid, I find the likelihood of this remote. The public test realm at this point is to a great extent filled with highly motivated, dedicated, talented folks who want to get an edge for upcoming content. The amount of immortal/undying/Twighlight/ect. on there is amazing. More than likely, and from my current experimentation on test dummys and the heroic VH I did, BM is at this point, OP. To me it is an odd assumption to say that Desmond is maxed out but his partners are in full blues or something, a 3k dps gap between 1st and 10 is gigantic.
Last the problem with complaining about pet unfriendly fights is that there aren’t that many at this point. Spider Wing-Anub is slightly dangerous but all you have to do is switch your pet to crypt lord on the movement. Plague- Okay Heigan is bad and on Loth you don’t pick up the crit buff. Construct-Grobbulus is one but only if your tank is poor with movment. Military- just make sure to switch targets on Horse and your fine. Saphiron- minor, watch the blizzard. KT- If melee void zone called move your pet. Sarth- pet unfriendly but on zero or 1 drake its doable, working on 3 drake right now and I haven’t figured it out yet, another pet unfriendly fight. So as a rundown
Pet will die fights: Heigan, Sarth
Pets could die: Grobbulus, KT
Only if the hunter is dumb: Anub, 4 horse, Saph(heck and on this one your pet gets to dps during airphase)
So of all the raids in Wrath thus far you should only lose your pet in 2/18 of them a rather low ratio. Blizzard tends to be quite kind towards pets by giving them high AoE avoidance and make many of their bosses special mechanisms not affect the pet. I can’t imagine them upping pet dps that much when its a fire and forget mechanism(literally clicking go attack the boss once) for half the fights in Wrath.
In Wrath thus far there
@truewanderer: small fix, Wild Hunt.
it also may have been a quick fight and we all know how that skews dps figures
WHY IS EVERYONE TALKING ABOUT HOW HUNTERS ARE OP ALL THE TIME?!?!?!? THE DK WAS THE SAME DPS???!!!! OPEN UR EYES , OR IS IT THAT HUNTERS HAVE TO LIVE INT HE GUTTER ALL THE TIME?
Good joke m8 , only problem is that this screenie is fixed and BM doesnt give anything more than 2-2.5k dps
For all u numskull eager to kill the hunter dps once more : the screenie is either fake or a result of a bug-hotfix. Tried the BM unbuffed gives nothing more than 2k+800dps for the pet. I cant rly see how can u go from 2.8k unbuffed to 6.1k buffed. And dont start about my gear it cant be better atm. Good joke tho…. prolly a paly wants to nerf the hunters again….gg